# Reparations Revisited **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 22, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969 "2014-02-22T20:16:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/61 "2014-02-25T03:24:01Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I agree with you here except I don’t believe the States will be complicit in allowing blacks to gain power locally. I think you’ll get what you have now: previous slave-holding, Southern states scrambling to curtail suffrage of African-Americans while the federal government looks on with mild indifference. > > Yes. Because you’re American, too. Perhaps. > > I think if it’s explained in a Fox News-like way, people will come around and believe it is the right course for the country. > > I don’t know, as a running joke to show that a black president is ineffective? Obama can’t get anything done because the previous slave-holding states have sent a clown-car filled with anti-government ideologues to grind Congress to a halt. You have the Speaker of the House claiming that the House of Representatives needs to “cool it” on legislation this year. WTF? Wasn’t 2013 the least productive Congress since its Founding? The Constitution lays bare for all the purpose of the Legislative Branch: _it is to legislate_. Only when a black man comes into the White House does the majority of the electorate don the cloak of austerity and paucity. It is only when a black man walks in the White House does the majority of the electorate decide that _nothing_ Obama does will succeed. Even in 2014, the electorate will remain unchanged and vote for same anti-government ideologues to occupy Congress. > > I think instead of using blacks as proxies for whatever theoretical cultural war the South has with the North or vice versa, it would be better for the country for us - the blacks - to leave you all to your business. Once we leave, I am sure the electorate will find necessary strength to vote to finally fix their roads and realize the importance of education funding, unemployment insurance, and other necessary things that have been cut in order to ostensibly “punish” us. > > First, Affirmative Action does help blacks\*. Second, Affirmative Acton combined with the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act would’ve been an imperfect but suitable compromise to reparations. Thirdly, because the majority has reneged on Affirmative Action, reneged on the Voting Rights Act and is wavering on the Civil Rights Act, it has become clear that the majority does not embrace the values they purported to have in the 1960’s. Finally, expanding social programs is a non-starter because the majority has ostensibly labeled anything that helps or uplifts other poor Americans as “pork”. > > - Btw, stop asking blacks to cough up their race and, bam, you don’t have to worry about racial preferences. Get rid of the racial boxes: Problem solved. I think this is a very important point, it’s white people that’s asking, begging, and demanding black people reveal their race. _Not_ the other way around. > > Yes. > > No. > > While I think the struggle for black and gay equality are similar, I don’t think they are comparable in scope nor in breadth. To mention the sexuality of the biographer smacks of smearing unless there is something substantive I am missing. > > - Honesty So then since you think the Nation of Islam and possibly Louis Farrakhan were behind the murder of Malcolm X in front of his wife and children why weren’t you disgusted by the way African-Americans who claimed they saw Malcolm X as a hero fawned all over Louis Farrakhan? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/62 "2014-02-25T06:07:28Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > - Btw, stop asking blacks to cough up their race and, bam, you don’t have to worry about racial preferences. Get rid of the racial boxes: Problem solved. I think this is a very important point, it’s white people that’s asking, begging, and demanding black people reveal their race. _Not_ the other way around. Yeah, it sure is terrible that white people ask blacks to disclose their race. Making them take a blood test to prove their racial purity is _so_ much more civilised. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/63 "2014-02-25T07:34:52Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Are you going to send reparation to the British for stealing our colonies? Makes as much fucking sense as your proposal… To be fair, the United States did settle up with Great Britain following the Revolutionary War up to an including reparation payments to British subjects. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/64 "2014-02-25T09:39:07Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Are you going to send reparation to the British for stealing our colonies? Makes as much fucking sense as your proposal… Hell, I want reparations from the US for stealing those colonies from Britain! ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/65 "2014-02-25T09:45:56Z")
While we’re at it, I think the Welsh want reparations from Ireland for the sub-Roman slave raids… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/66 "2014-02-25T15:56:43Z")
As a descendant of the Irish, where every man was a king … someone owes me a kingdom. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/67 "2014-02-25T16:12:26Z")
As a Irish Jew from Guam I want to be put on the Endangered Species List so that I can live wherever I want and no one can threaten me. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/68 "2014-02-25T16:14:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > As a Irish Jew from Guam I want to be put on the Endangered Species List so that I can live wherever I want and no one can threaten me. Yeah, but you’ll end up with an ear tag and radio tracking collar that way. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/69 "2014-02-25T16:15:18Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yeah, but you’ll end up with an ear tag and radio tracking collar that way. Ohhh, kinky! Let’s do it! ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/70 "2014-02-25T18:26:36Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I am thinking Canada and Europe for the most part; I can also envision Venezuela, Argentina, Iran, Russia, and China absorbing a large portion of the black population in order embarrass to the U.S. I just want to say that this is the silliest thing ever. You really only think you’ve experienced racism in the United States if you haven’t seen how black folks are treated in Russia or China. Yes, it’s possible that the Latin American countries would be OK - though even there one finds that how one is treated varies based on skin tone - but in Russia or China it is - in my experience - a great deal like the US in the 40s. Yes, your thesis about nations wanting to embarass the US might be true, but that wouldn’t mean one tinkers damn to day to day life and interactions with the general public. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/71 "2014-02-25T18:27:56Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > 😕 Slave-holding states? Hang on a sec, let me check the calendar. > > Yep, it’s still 2014, not 1865. Oh, and [didn’t you leave](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16922926#post16922926)? Also, let’s not make this personal. Address the argument, not the arguer. No warning issued but further such from anyone might earn some. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/72 "2014-03-01T17:43:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think it’s the wrong course. Fox News could spin this positively by stating that the reduction of African-Americans will lead to increased jobs thus alleviating the recession. Moreoever, Fox News could emphasize that is a victory against Affirmative Action, the Voting Rights Act, and the Civil Rights Act. No longer shall businesses be forced to serve blacks. They could have analysts that anticipate the reparation program will lead to a precipitous drop in crime over X amount years, etc etc. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t want black people to leave! I don’t want families broken up because some are black and some are not. I think we have a long way to go, but we’ve made progress, and I think we can continue to make progress. Aww, this warms my heart. It does. But, unfortunately, most of the electorate wants black people to leave. Why else do they complain and whine about Affirmative Action, the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act? The whole American historical experience has boiled down to small but substantial amount of whites who regard blacks as people vs the majority of whites who do not. It’s silly. Simply remove the blacks from the equation. [QUOTE=Ibn Warraq] So then since you think the Nation of Islam and possibly Louis Farrakhan were behind the murder of Malcolm X in front of his wife and children why weren’t you disgusted by the way African-Americans who claimed they saw Malcolm X as a hero fawned all over Louis Farrakhan? [/QUOTE] If there is evidence that the Nation of Islam was behind his death then I 100% support a FBI investigation into it. I am not disgusted by Malcolm X supporters aligning themselves with Louis Farrakhan. Like Malcolm, Louis Farrakhan was one of the few voices that made a biting remark with a smile. Look at this [clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os5DlODMoNg) where Farrakhan pwns Mike Wallace. There hasn’t been a black voice since him, unfortunately. [QUOTE=Grumman] Yeah, it sure is terrible that white people ask blacks to disclose their race. Making them take a blood test to prove their racial purity is so much more civilised. [/QUOTE] You’re comparing reality to the hypothetical requirement for a reparation program. The point was that whites won’t need to complain about Affirmative Action if they simply quit asking blacks to reveal our race every time we piss or sneeze. Take the Census Bureau. The Constitution says to take a head count every ten years. So what does the Census Bureau do? They take in ethnic data, which is then published, and used by politicians to gerrymander the black vote into non-existence. I am sure it’s also used by prospective homeowners and businesses to self-segregate themselves away from areas where blacks live, thus contributing to the cycle of poverty. It’s unfair and collecting and releasing that data is beyond the Bureau’s constitutional mandate (IMO). The same goes with employers, businesses, and hospitals that collect ethnic data with or without permission. Either get rid of the boxes or stop complaining. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/73 "2014-03-01T17:58:23Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Aww, this warms my heart. It does. But, unfortunately, most of the electorate wants black people to leave. Why else do they complain and whine about Affirmative Action, the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act? Show us actual evidence that most of the electorate wants the former and does the latter. Cite, please. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/74 "2014-03-01T18:26:47Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > The whole American historical experience has boiled down to small but substantial amount of whites who regard blacks as people vs the majority of whites who do not. Let’s see your evidence that the majority of whites do not see blacks as human. > [@](#): > > Take the Census Bureau. The Constitution says to take a head count every ten years. So what does the Census Bureau do? They take in ethnic data, which is then published, and used by politicians to gerrymander the black vote into non-existence. No, as a matter of fact they [don’t](http://www.adversity.net/special/gerrymander.htm). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/75 "2014-03-01T19:05:00Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Fox News could spin this positively by stating that the reduction of African-Americans will lead to increased jobs thus alleviating the recession. Moreoever, Fox News could emphasize that is a victory against Affirmative Action, the Voting Rights Act, and the Civil Rights Act. No longer shall businesses be forced to serve blacks. They could have analysts that anticipate the reparation program will lead to a precipitous drop in crime over X amount years, etc etc. > > Aww, this warms my heart. It does. But, unfortunately, most of the electorate wants black people to leave. Why else do they complain and whine about Affirmative Action, the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act? The whole American historical experience has boiled down to small but substantial amount of whites who regard blacks as people vs the majority of whites who do not. It’s silly. Simply remove the blacks from the equation. I think you’re reading of the electorate is factually wrong, and you’re overestimating the size of the bigoted part of the US by a significant amount. If you have evidence, please present it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/76 "2014-03-01T20:06:02Z")
I will freely confess that I’ll never understand the people who so revere Malcolm X they’re inspired to put up a thread on his assassination yet also revere the leader of organization that murdered him, particularly when that same man enthusiastically endorsed Malcolm’s murder. Now, Honesty, since you also profess to admire Farrakhan and find him to be a “voice” we need, then do you also agree with his comments about Jews being “bloodsuckers” who’ve been “exploiting the black community”, “owned 75% of all slaves” “murdered Jesus” and should be “punished” for these crimes, when he’s not having his flunkies pass out copies of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion at rallies. To me he’s clearly an anti-Semitic moron. You obviously disagree. Please explain why claiming The Proticols of the Elders of Zion is the truth, that Jews are “bloodsuckers” who “murdered Jesus” isn’t anti-Semitic claptrap. Thanks in advance. Please explain why ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/77 "2014-03-01T23:23:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Show us actual evidence that most of the electorate wants the former and does the latter. Cite, please. Uh, white flight is the evidence and electorate cries of wanting their “country back” during the 2010 and 2012 Election were quite apparent. [QUOTE=Ibn Warraq] Now, Honesty, since you also profess to admire Farrakhan and find him to be a “voice” we need, then do you also agree with his comments about Jews being “bloodsuckers” who’ve been “exploiting the black community”, “owned 75% of all slaves” “murdered Jesus” and should be “punished” for these crimes, when he’s not having his flunkies pass out copies of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion at rallies. [/QUOTE] I don’t know anything about that and, frankly, given my history on this board, I’d rather not talk about anything regarding the Jewish people or Israel. [QUOTE=Shodan] Let’s see your evidence that the majority of whites do not see blacks as human. [/QUOTE] Your posts. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/78 "2014-03-01T23:45:01Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Uh, white flight is the evidence and electorate cries of wanting their “country back” during the 2010 and 2012 Election were quite apparent. That’s evidence that some people are bigots. It’s not evidence that the majority are. Do you have any evidence that more than 50% of Americans are bigots? ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/79 "2014-03-01T23:53:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Let’s see your evidence that the majority of whites do not see blacks as human. > [@Honesty](#): > > Your posts. What he is asking for are cites providing actual evidence of what you are talking about. Not rumors, not “everyone says”, not ideas you have dreamed up. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/80 "2014-03-02T00:44:43Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I am thinking Canada and Europe for the most part; I can also envision Venezuela, Argentina, Iran, Russia, and China absorbing a large portion of the black population in order embarrass to the U.S. I’m sorry, but this comment is laughable. Europe has been turning very hostile towards immigration so the idea that any of their countries would want to take in over 30 million African-Americans is quite silly. Canada is relatively open to immigration but anyone who’s tried immigrating there would happily tell you that it’s not easy at all and the idea that a country of roughly 15 million would happily take in 30 million is beyond stupid. I’m not sure why you think Venezuela or Argentina could afford or want this. Russia and China are both vastly more racist than the US so neither strike me as the kind of countries to go to if you’re looking to escape racism. Finally Iran. With all due respect, do you know anything about Iran and what would possibly make you feel that you’d find any substantial percentage of African-Americans who’d want to go there? I assume you’re aware that most African-Americans are Christians and that Christianity is important to them. Do you want me to go into detail about how Christians are treated in Iran? To give just one obvious example, how many African-Americans are going to want to go there when they find out that building churches there is so difficult legally that I don’t think a single one has been built since the Revolution. Moreover, if African-Americans decided to live there they’d be living under Iranian law. You’ve whined about how horrible you feel American drug laws are; have you the slightest idea how much more strict they are in Iran and what happens to people convicted of drug crimes? Beyond that, I’m sure you’re aware that nearly two thirds of all African-American children are born out of wedlock. You do realize that in Iran things like fornication, adultery and giving birth out of wedlock are not just seen as sins but crimes for which the punishments are extremely severe, and the legal system, if anything, is much harsher on Christians than Muslims. > [@](#): > > If there is evidence that the Nation of Islam was behind his death then I 100% support a FBI investigation into it. “If”? :dubious: Er… you do realize the men who murdered him were members of the Nation don’t you? You do realize he’d broken with the Nation because he didn’t like Elijah Muhammad screwing young women and was pissing them off by repeatedly attacking Elijah Muhammad for doing so? > [@](#): > > I don’t know anything about that and, Really?:dubious: You’re unaware of Farrakhan’s long history of bigotry against Jews?:dubious: That’s a bit like saying you didn’t know that David Duke has often been accused of racism. For that matter, in that silly little clip you pointed to were Mike Wallace makes Farrakhan look like a hypocrite his anti-semitism is mentioned. > [@](#): > > frankly, given my history on this board, I’d rather not talk about anything regarding the Jewish people or Israel. I have no idea what you’re talking about, but I do find your jump to “Israel” quite telling to be more than a little weird since I mentioned nothing about Israel, just Farrakhan’s claims about Jews being behind the slave trade, “bloodsuckers”, and the people who “murdered Jesus”. What any of that has to do with Israel I don’t know. Anyway, I don’t see what your “history on this board” has to do with the question of whether or not those statements are anti-Semitic or not. Do you think Farrakhan’s claims that Jews owned the majority of slaves was anti-Semitic bullshit? Do you think his claims that the Jews murdered Jesus was anti-Semitic bullshit? Do you think his claim that Jews were “bloodsuckers” who “lived off the black community” was anti-Semitic claptrap? Do you think his claim that The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was true was anti-Semitic crap? Thanks in advance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969.md?page=5)