# Reparations Revisited **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 22, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969 "2014-02-22T20:16:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/81 "2014-03-02T02:09:27Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I agree with you here except I don’t believe the States will be complicit in allowing blacks to gain power locally. I think you’ll get what you have now: previous slave-holding, Southern states scrambling to curtail suffrage of African-Americans while the federal government looks on with mild indifference. > [cut] > > - Honesty Blacks in the South already have some political power locally, and could gain much more. Economic empowerment is the key, as I noted upthread. Important part of this is to hire whites and enter into business partnerships with them. Take advantage of the broader networks and connections with the larger American society. Intermarriage is also part of this. What are white Americans, after all, but light skinned black folks? 😛 The more business and familial ties exist between the two communities, the more costly sectarian violence is to whites. A lot of racialist whites would end up leaving the South altogether. They aren’t the hegemonic power they once were, in the South, or anywhere else. They won’t be able to stop black folks from gaining power locally, if black folks choose to pursue it. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/82 "2014-03-02T02:14:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s evidence that some people are bigots. It’s not evidence that the majority are. Do you have any evidence that more than 50% of Americans are bigots? If you mean 50% of the total American population? Then no. If we’re talking about 50% of voting Americans in a specific region or county, then yes. It’s these collection of counties that allow States to flex their anti-minority policies such as voter ID laws and restricting various aspects of voting (e.g. reduced polling stations, reduced hours, preventing the use student IDs, etc). These are the same areas that hungrily vote Democratic in their own State Legislatures and Governorships but send a polka dot car of anti-government Republicans to occupy Congress. I sincerely believe they consistently vote against their interest as a metaphorical slap in the face to minorities. [QUOTE=Shodan] No, as a matter of fact they don’t. [/QUOTE] I am not seeing in your cite where State legislatures are banned from using census data or any other voluntary/involuntary data that tracks race or voting patterns. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/83 "2014-03-02T02:20:32Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I just want to say that this is the silliest thing ever. You really only think you’ve experienced racism in the United States if you haven’t seen how black folks are treated in Russia or China. Yes, it’s possible that the Latin American countries would be OK - though even there one finds that how one is treated varies based on skin tone - but in Russia or China it is - in my experience - a great deal like the US in the 40s. > > Yes, your thesis about nations wanting to embarass the US might be true, but that wouldn’t mean one tinkers damn to day to day life and interactions with the general public. Your point is relatively weak here. I’ll explain why. The rights that black Americans hold here in the States have only been recognized for a half century or so. For the great majority of American history, black folks were treated worse in the US than African immigrants and students are currently treated in China or Russia. The US has changed, but it could also change back. With regards to its black population, the US tends to have cycles of improvement, followed by cycles of anti black repression and terrorism. We may now be in the beginning of a downward cycle. By the same token, China could change. The black American experience in China hasn’t been uniformly awful. Some black Americans have had very positive experiences in China. It’s a mixed bag. (I’m in no way suggesting that China would ever be interested in taking on large numbers black American immigrants. Or white American immigrants, for that matter.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/84 "2014-03-02T02:44:53Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > If you mean 50% of the total American population? Then no. If we’re talking about 50% of voting Americans in a specific region or county, then yes. It’s these collection of counties that allow States to flex their anti-minority policies such as voter ID laws and restricting various aspects of voting (e.g. reduced polling stations, reduced hours, preventing the use student IDs, etc). These are the same areas that hungrily vote Democratic in their own State Legislatures and Governorships but send a polka dot car of anti-government Republicans to occupy Congress. I sincerely believe they consistently vote against their interest as a metaphorical slap in the face to minorities. We agree on the wrongness of these various attempts at voter restriction, but so far they’ve failed to reduce minority turnout. And even if a majority of certain localities are racist, I don’t believe your suggestion is the proper response. The influence of such localities has diminished over time and continues to diminish. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/85 "2014-03-02T02:53:49Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I am thinking Canada and Europe for the most part; Crypto manifest destiny, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/86 "2014-03-02T19:27:59Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > [QUOTE=Shodan] > > Let’s see your evidence that the majority of whites do not see blacks as human. Your posts. [/QUOTE] Direct personal insults have always been forbidden in this forum. Do not do this again. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/87 "2014-03-02T19:59:56Z")
No reparations. If your 5 greats grandfather stole $100 from my 5 greats grandfather in 1820, it doesn’t follow that you owe me $100 with almost 200 years of accumulated interest. Statutes of limitation exist in law for this very reason. Otherwise we can demand repayment for all grievances from the dawn of time until the present for amounts that exceed the value of all property in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/88 "2014-03-02T20:04:36Z")
It’s not just slavery though. Hundreds of thousands of black soldiers were denied the benefits of the GI Bill after World War Two. They were unable to take advantage of home loans or had access to a college education like many white soldiers did. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/89 "2014-03-02T22:13:38Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > It’s not just slavery though. Hundreds of thousands of black soldiers were denied the benefits of the GI Bill after World War Two. They were unable to take advantage of home loans or had access to a college education like many white soldiers did. Then I ask again, just what exactly are we paying reparations for? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/90 "2014-03-03T04:31:13Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Then I ask again, just what exactly are we paying reparations for? For being white. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/91 "2014-03-07T15:49:33Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Then I ask again, just what exactly are we paying reparations for? To allow blacks the freedom to live out their short lives on this planet in peace and prosperity. Theoretically, we should be able to walk to the store and buy some candy without being questioned, accosted, and shot. [QUOTE=jtgain] No reparations. If your 5 greats grandfather stole $100 from my 5 greats grandfather in 1820, it doesn’t follow that you owe me $100 with almost 200 years of accumulated interest. Statutes of limitation exist in law for this very reason. Otherwise we can demand repayment for all grievances from the dawn of time until the present for amounts that exceed the value of all property in the world. [/QUOTE] Nah, I am not talking about specific people, I am talking about the government. The government was negligent in protecting the constitutional rights of blacks up until the 1960’s. Then 10 years after that, white began rolling back (and continue to roll back) those constitutional freedoms of liberty and the pursuit of happiness. There is a debt owed to blacks and the federal government ought to pay with additional funds ponied up by previous slave-holding States. Even now, the government still ignores the anti-minority policies enacted by the States. Let’s break this farce, give us our money, and we can move somewhere like Canada or Europe. [QUOTE=Ibn Warraq] Russia and China are both vastly more racist than the US so neither strike me as the kind of countries to go to if you’re looking to escape racism. [/QUOTE] Sorry dude, I don’t remember any of those countries having separate water fountains, preventing people from voting because of their skin color, or run around wearing the robes of the Grand Wizard. Soooo, I’ll take my chances with the Chinese and Russians. [QUOTE=Odesio] It’s not just slavery though. Hundreds of thousands of black soldiers were denied the benefits of the GI Bill after World War Two. They were unable to take advantage of home loans or had access to a college education like many white soldiers did. [/QUOTE] Exactly. These soldiers fought for America while being segregated. Then when these soldiers came back they were accused of being communist because they dared to want equal rights under the law. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/92 "2014-03-07T15:55:53Z")
Considering the disparity in arrest and sentencing for drug offenses, despite equivalent rates of use for blacks and whites, I think there’s an argument to be made for reparations as a result of the failed “War on Drugs”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/93 "2014-03-07T16:07:04Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Sorry dude, I don’t remember any of those countries having separate water fountains, preventing people from voting because of their skin color, or run around wearing the robes of the Grand Wizard. Soooo, I’ll take my chances with the Chinese and Russians. [I wouldn’t](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_China#Against_Africans_and_Blacks), [if I were you.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Russia) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/94 "2014-03-07T16:11:24Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > To allow blacks the freedom to live out their short lives on this planet in peace and prosperity. Theoretically, we should be able to walk to the store and buy some candy without being questioned, accosted, and shot. This sounds like an excellent goal; though I see no way in which your proposed solution would alleviate this problem. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/95 "2014-03-07T16:20:35Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > To allow blacks the freedom to live out their short lives on this planet in peace and prosperity. Because only blacks have a right to be rich. But **Honesty** isn’t racist. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/96 "2014-03-07T16:51:45Z")
I’ll note once more that after being a huge proponent of Louis Farrakhan and claiming that Farrakhan is “a voice” that black people need Honesty has once again refused to explain whether or not he thought Farrakhan was being anti-Semitic when he referred to Jews as “bloodsuckers” who were “sucking the lifeblood from the black community” and claiming that “the Jews” “killed Jesus” and owned most of the slaves in the South. I wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/97 "2014-03-07T16:59:06Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Because only blacks have a right to be rich. But **Honesty** isn’t racist. Ut! Stop that. Posts, not posters. Don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/98 "2014-03-07T17:01:20Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Theoretically, we should be able to walk to the store and buy some candy without being questioned, accosted, and shot. As long as you can manage to stop yourself from attacking strangers along the way, I don’t see that you have any problem. > [@Honesty](#): > > Let’s break this farce, give us our money, and we can move somewhere like Canada or Europe. I’m fine with this, except for the part about giving you money. If you want to go someplace else, feel free. I just don’t see any point in paying you to go away, or forking over the equivalent of alimony so that you can go off and live in a style to which you would like to become accustomed. Besides, if I hated you as much as you seem to imagine, why would I bother? Either I keep black folks around for menial labor and target practice, or else the populations of Mississippi and Washington DC buys into these Marcus Garvey fantasies and moves out anyway, and we horrible racist ex-slaveholders are shut of you anyway. The NHL would have to replace the NBA and NFL as the center of our sports universe, but we’d adjust. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to claim that we are doing all these direful things to re-enslave you, and then say we should spend a lot of money on you. Regards, Shodan PS - Am I right in thinking you aren’t ever going to come up with cites for the things you claim? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/99 "2014-03-07T17:11:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As long as you can manage to stop yourself from attacking strangers along the way, I don’t see that you have any problem. Are you really saying that all shootings of black people by white people are justified? Because that’s what it seems like you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/100 "2014-03-07T17:16:51Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Otherwise we can demand repayment for all grievances from the dawn of time until the present for amounts that exceed the value of all property in the world. Well, the need for lawyers and legal aides might help with unemployment problems. :rolleyes: [Ben Birnbaum has defended himself from charges that his ancestors stole Pharaoh’s gold.](http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/2004/01/birnbaum.htm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969.md?page=6)