# Repealing the 2nd Amendment **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326 "2016-06-14T04:05:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/261 "2016-06-27T22:32:32Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And it became moot when we changed our minds and established a standing army anyway. You could say it still guarantees the National Guard’s right to have armaments (well, duh), as well as indirectly requiring it to exist. For other purposes of gun ownership, the Constitution is simply silent. Not according to SCOTUS who has ruled we have a right to self defense, and own most types of normal guns. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/262 "2016-06-27T22:40:19Z")
A ruling made by simply inventing things that aren’t there, made by a guy, who’s now dead anyway, who always claimed to be against that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/263 "2016-06-28T00:33:23Z")
Going back a bit… > [@DrDeth](#): > > Here’s a quote from the article: > > "\*Squeeze lightly on the trigger and the resulting explosion of firepower is humbling and deafening (even with ear protection). > > The recoil bruised my shoulder, which can happen if you don’t know what you’re doing. The brass shell casings disoriented me as they flew past my face. The smell of sulfur and destruction made me sick. The explosions — loud like a bomb — gave me a temporary form of PTSD. > \*" > > 1. Recoil on a .223 is very light. > > 2. Smokeless powder has no sulfur smell. That’s blackpowder, which no .223 is powered by. > > 3. Not that loud if your wearing mandatory hearing protection. > > Thus,\* he’s lying.\* Eh, I took it to be that everything about it was so alien to him he got into a state of spewing breathless purple prose. Sort of a verbal soiling of pants. Which still is odd if as per his own words he has shot handguns before, maybe part of it is that he had to put his face up close to the receiver rather than holding it out at arm’s length. And I get the feeling many people don’t know what actual burnt sulfur smells like. (He did later apologize for using the term PTSD). ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/264 "2016-06-28T02:11:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A ruling made by simply inventing things that aren’t there, made by a guy, who’s now dead anyway, who always claimed to be against that sort of thing. The constitutional case for a right to own firearms is stronger than a constitutional case for the right to an abortion. Do you disagree with Roe v. Wade as well? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/265 "2016-06-28T02:31:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A ruling made by simply inventing things that aren’t there, made by a guy, who’s now dead anyway, who always claimed to be against that sort of thing. \*Five \*guys. Justice Scalia, Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., Justices Anthony M. Kennedy, Clarence Thomas and Samuel A. Alito Jr. Antigun people always seems to have problems with numbers. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/266 "2016-06-28T11:35:09Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > The constitutional case for a right to own firearms is stronger Within the limits the amendment itself defines, yes, otherwise no. > [@](#): > > than a constitutional case for the right to an abortion. The due process requirement of the 14th, unlike the 2nd, is \*not \*self-limited. ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/267 "2016-06-28T13:42:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And it became moot when we changed our minds and established a standing army anyway. You could say it still guarantees the National Guard’s right to have armaments (well, duh), as well as indirectly requiring it to exist. For other purposes of gun ownership, the Constitution is simply silent. > > Sure it is. The 2nd guarantees the right of We The People to have an effective military force when we need one, to protect our free State from invasion and insurrection. That’s _from_, not _of_. It may still be relevant given the current registration system and the possibility that conscription may be implemented once more. ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/268 "2016-06-28T13:43:39Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > The constitutional case for a right to own firearms is stronger than a constitutional case for the right to an abortion. Do you disagree with Roe v. Wade as well? My understanding is that the right to bear arms is a natural right, which means it existed even before the Second was written. However, like some natural rights, it may be abridged for one reason or another. Hence, gun control varying across states. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/269 "2016-06-28T14:17:43Z")
> [@ralfy](#): > > My understanding is that the right to bear arms is a natural right, which means it existed even before the Second was written. However, like some natural rights, it may be abridged for one reason or another. Hence, gun control varying across states. Where might I find a list of “natural rights”? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/270 "2016-06-28T17:03:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It makes a difference what’s in the Constitution and what is not, doesn’t it? For instance, the militia clause is in there, even if it doesn’t say what you wish it did. If Hamilton or Madison were alive and running for election, would you disregard their numerous gun-advocacy statements through their long political careers, and trust them solely on the letter of the Second Amendment as their campaign speech? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/271 "2016-06-28T19:57:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where might I find a list of “natural rights”? [http://www.crfcelebrateamerica.org/index.php/ideas/53-unalienable-and-natural-rights](http://www.crfcelebrateamerica.org/index.php/ideas/53-unalienable-and-natural-rights) ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/272 "2016-06-28T22:26:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Within the limits the amendment itself defines, yes, otherwise no. > > The due process requirement of the 14th, unlike the 2nd, is \*not \*self-limited. So the explicit mention of the rights of the people to keep and bare arms isn’t as compelling as the case for abortion, even though the topic is addressed nowhere in the Constitution. That kind of thinking is why it’s hard to think gun grabbers are acting in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/273 "2016-06-28T22:32:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A ruling made by simply inventing things that aren’t there, made by a guy, who’s now dead anyway, who always claimed to be against that sort of thing. Ah, the irony. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/274 "2016-06-28T23:04:57Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > So the explicit mention of the rights of the people to keep and bare arms There’s something \*else \*explicit in there, isn’t there? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/275 "2016-06-28T23:06:01Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > If Hamilton or Madison were alive and running for election, would you disregard their numerous gun-advocacy statements through their long political careers, and trust them solely on the letter of the Second Amendment as their campaign speech? No, I’d recognize them as advocating our having a ready military force. In case of, oh, maybe, insurrection. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where might I find a list of “natural rights”? Right under the gold-fringed flag. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/276 "2016-06-29T00:05:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There’s something \*else \*explicit in there, isn’t there? 😉 Yep, militias and such. DC vs Heller drew a different conclusion however. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/277 "2016-06-29T02:09:20Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Yep, militias and such. IOW, the entire intended purpose of the thing. As you know. > [@](#): > > DC vs Heller drew a different conclusion however. In stark contrast to all previous jurisdiction and the historical record. You do realize, I hope, that you’re doing a fine job of showing how the amendment has been interpreted so pervertedly so frequently that getting rid of it, and all the excuses it has been used to cover, would be for the best. It certainly would be more edifying to hear what else this alleged fundamental right rests upon, especially since the US would now be on equal footing with the civilized world whose experience somehow just doesn’t even count to those like you. It might even result in some saved lives, don’tcha think? ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/278 "2016-06-29T02:17:59Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It might even result in some saved lives, don’tcha think? Fewer than the criminalization of abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/279 "2016-06-29T02:25:24Z")
Serious question for all those in favor of doing away with the private ownership of guns for public safety. Diseases that often arise from lifestyle choices - heart disease and cancer - kill far, far more people than guns in US. If it makes sense to ban gun in order to save lives, why not ban a bad diet and lack of exercise? Hell, according to [this](http://www.medhelp.org/general-health/articles/The-25-Most-Common-Causes-of-Death/193?page=3) there’s a 1 in 85 chance of dying from land vehicle accidents. Why not ban ATVs and motorcycles? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/280 "2016-06-29T09:10:15Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Serious question for all those in favor of doing away with the private ownership of guns for public safety. > > Diseases that often arise from lifestyle choices - heart disease and cancer - kill far, far more people than guns in US. If it makes sense to ban gun in order to save lives, why not ban a bad diet and lack of exercise? > > Hell, according to [this](http://www.medhelp.org/general-health/articles/The-25-Most-Common-Causes-of-Death/193?page=3) there’s a 1 in 85 chance of dying from land vehicle accidents. Why not ban ATVs and motorcycles? We’ve been through this in another thread, Waymore. Land vehicles aren’t designed primarily as weapons, and they have massively beneficial uses, socially and economically. Deaths arising from accident are a byproduct. Where as guns are weapons, they are designed to injure and kill, used as designed they _will_ injure and kill, and they have no beneficial applications in the transport of humans and goods, with the social and economic benefits that ensue. Hence there’s a massive, massive cost to banning vehicles which does not arise in banning guns. But you know all this already. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326.md?page=15)