# Repealing the 2nd Amendment **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326 "2016-06-14T04:05:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/281 "2016-06-29T14:36:37Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > We’ve been through this in another thread, Waymore. Land vehicles aren’t designed primarily as weapons, and they have massively beneficial uses, socially and economically. Deaths arising from accident are a byproduct. Where as guns are weapons, they are designed to injure and kill, used as designed they _will_ injure and kill, and they have no beneficial applications in the transport of humans and goods, with the social and economic benefits that ensue. Hence there’s a massive, massive cost to banning vehicles which does not arise in banning guns. > > But you know all this already. Pretty much a strawman in that you are talking about cars, and in what you quoted he’s talking about ATVs and motorcycles, which there are plenty of folks who think that people who own them don’t ‘need’ them. Also, you didn’t address things that have less obvious utility, such as tobacco and alcohol, that cause more deaths yet has no more (I’d argue less actually) ‘beneficial use’ to society. Or the recent opening up for recreational pot use. But then, you know all this already I’m sure… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/282 "2016-06-29T16:50:34Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > We’ve been through this in another thread, Waymore. Land vehicles aren’t designed primarily as weapons, and they have massively beneficial uses, socially and economically. Deaths arising from accident are a byproduct. Where as guns are weapons, they are designed to injure and kill, used as designed they _will_ injure and kill, and they have no beneficial applications in the transport of humans and goods, with the social and economic benefits that ensue. Hence there’s a massive, massive cost to banning vehicles which does not arise in banning guns. > > But you know all this already. No, guns are designed to _sell_. They are designed to shoot targets and be collected. A minority are used for hunting, and a tiny % ever kill a human. Some groups still depend upon hunting for food, even in America. And of course we could live without privately owned cars. Transport of goods & services would be by commercial vehicles, and there’s this thing called “Public transportation”. However, what are the societal benefits of _tobacco,_ which kills more than half a million Americans a year? ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/283 "2016-11-03T10:41:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where might I find a list of “natural rights”? Part of English common law > **[English law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_law)** > > English law is the common law legal system of England and Wales, comprising mainly criminal law and civil law, each branch having its own courts and procedures. > Although the common law has, historically, been the foundation and prime source of English law, the most authoritative law is statutory legislation, which comprises Acts of Parliament, regulations\[a\] and by-laws. In the absence of any statutory law, the common law with its principle of stare decisis forms the residual source of law, b... specifically > **[Self-defence in English law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defence_in_English_law)** > > Self-defence is a defence permitting reasonable force to be used to defend one's self or another. This defence arises from both common law and the Criminal Law Act 1967. Self-defence is a justification defence rather than an excuse. > The common law of self-defence applies where the defendant uses necessary, reasonable and proportionate force to defend themselves or another from imminent attack. It is a complete defence to all non-sexual offences involving the unlawful use of force (anything fr... ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/284 "2016-11-04T18:53:41Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > According to the cite above, Americans have a 1 in 300 chance of dying from gun violence. There’s a 1 in 6 chance of dying of heart disease, 1 in 7 chance of dying of cancer and 1 in 28 chance of dying of stroke. I would like to outlaw you using cancer or heart disease for personal defense too. 1 in 300 people dying because of gun violence is acceptable? And we really should be concentrating on other factors? This shows how far down the gun hole Americans are. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/285 "2016-11-04T20:28:47Z")
> [@ralfy](#): > > Part of English common law > > [English law - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_law) > > specifically > > [Self-defence in English law - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defence_in_English_law) Perhaps you didn’t understand the question I asked, which _wasn’t_ “What is the definition and/or origin of common law?” I asked for a _list_ of _natural rights_. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/286 "2016-11-04T20:46:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Perhaps you didn’t understand the question I asked, which _wasn’t_ “What is the definition and/or origin of common law?” > I asked for a _list_ of _natural rights_. "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/287 "2016-11-04T20:49:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” Please tell me you’re joking. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/288 "2016-11-04T20:52:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Please tell me you’re joking. That’s from the Declaration of Independence, I am surprised you didn’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/289 "2016-11-04T21:01:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s from the Declaration of Independence, I am surprised you didn’t know that. I know where the hell it’s from. When people talk about “Natural Rights”, do you _really_ believe they are just referring to that one line in the D of I? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/290 "2016-11-04T21:14:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I know where the hell it’s from. > When people talk about “Natural Rights”, do you _really_ believe they are just referring to that one line in the D of I? Ah, is your question only for **ralfy**? Is no one else is allowed to give their opinion of what "natural rights’ means to them? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/291 "2016-11-04T21:21:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Ah, is your question only for **ralfy**? Is no one else is allowed to give their opinion of what "natural rights’ means to them? Is that your complete list of “natural rights”, then? ---
**Author:** ![Totenfeier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Totenfeier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Totenfeier)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/292 "2016-11-04T21:33:23Z")
LOOK… SOMEHOW, IN SOME WAY (maybe in schools?..nah…) …We have GOT to put an 18th century flintlock rifle and a semi-automatic side by side and hold the back of their heads severely DOWN while continuously repeating "Do you get it? Do you get it? DO YOU… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/293 "2016-11-04T21:38:32Z")
> [@Totenfeier](#): > > LOOK… > > SOMEHOW, IN SOME WAY (maybe in schools?..nah…) > > …We have GOT to put an 18th century flintlock rifle and a semi-automatic side by side and hold the back of their heads severely DOWN while continuously repeating "Do you get it? Do you get it? DO YOU… LOOK… SOMEHOW, IN SOME WAY (maybe in schools?..nah…) …We have GOT to put an \*18th Printing press \*and a _modern computerized laser printer_ side by side and hold the back of their heads severely DOWN while continuously repeating "Do you get it? Do you get it? DO YOU…:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/294 "2016-11-04T21:43:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is that your complete list of “natural rights”, then? what’s _your_ list? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/295 "2016-11-04T21:47:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > what’s _your_ list? I don’t have a list, and never claimed to have a list. I asked for a list of “natural rights” because they were brought up in this thread and I thought a thorough list of whatever it is they are might help me understand them better. Instead, what I’ve gotten so far are definitions of related concepts and a cut-out from the Declaration of Independence. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/296 "2016-11-04T21:48:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t have a list, and never claimed to have a list. I asked for a list of “natural rights” because they were brought up in this thread and I thought a thorough list of whatever it is they are might help me understand them better. Instead, what I’ve gotten so far are definitions of related concepts and a cut-out from the Declaration of Independence. Are you saying that the natural rights listed in the Declaration of Independence are bogus? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/297 "2016-11-04T21:55:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Are you saying that the natural rights listed in the Declaration of Independence are bogus? I said and/or implied no such thing, and I explained what I was looking for. Is "“life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” your total list or not? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/298 "2016-11-04T21:57:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I said and/or implied no such thing, and I explained what I was looking for. Is "“life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” your total list or not? No, I want to know what you think of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” , do _you_ accept those as natural rights? Because if you dont, there’s no use going further as you seem loath to provide your own list. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/299 "2016-11-04T22:01:08Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > IOW, the entire intended purpose of the thing. As you know. > > In stark contrast to all previous jurisdiction and the historical record. > > You do realize, I hope, that you’re doing a fine job of showing how the amendment has been interpreted so pervertedly so frequently that getting rid of it, and all the excuses it has been used to cover, would be for the best. It certainly would be more edifying to hear what else this alleged fundamental right rests upon, especially since the US would now be on equal footing with the civilized world whose experience somehow just doesn’t even count to those like you. It might even result in some saved lives, don’tcha think? Is the militia clause the ONLY reason for the right to bear arms, or just ONE of the reasons? Bill of Rights is a brief document, authors surely didn’t find it necessary to list EVERY possible reason to bear arms. For instance, they didn’t state: “People need to shoot game for food, therefore they have the right t bear arms”… ---
**Author:** ![Totenfeier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Totenfeier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Totenfeier)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/300 "2016-11-04T22:26:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > LOOK… > > SOMEHOW, IN SOME WAY (maybe in schools?..nah…) > > …We have GOT to put an \*18th Printing press \*and a _modern computerized laser printer_ side by side and hold the back of their heads severely DOWN while continuously repeating "Do you get it? Do you get it? DO YOU…:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Hee Hee! Printed sticks and stones mat break my bones, but…😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326.md?page=16)