# Repealing the 2nd Amendment **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326 "2016-06-14T04:05:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/321 "2016-11-05T20:15:21Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > An answer you don’t like is not necessarily a non-straight answer. When you suggest a top 10, my response is “no”. Clear right? You’ve thus far been unwilling to stipulate those 3, so we’re talking incremental steps here. When you say “stipulate”, do you mean “accept that they are natural Rights”? If so, then you are the one jumping the gun in this conversation. I am merely asking what _others_ consider to be “Natural Rights”, and I do not feel that I should have to accept other people’s opinions about their list before the conversation can proceed. This is becoming uncomfortably akin to conversations I’ve had with certain religious practitioners who would refuse to get into details about what they believe unless I first professed a sincere belief in their faith. I accept that “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”-whatever that may mean to each individual that says it-is going to be on a lot of people’s lists because when you Google the term “Natural Rights” that phrase pops up most often. Care to give me a few more? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/322 "2016-11-05T20:20:10Z")
Perhaps this is getting to be a bit of a hijack? ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/323 "2016-11-06T00:32:34Z")
Coming up with a exhaustive list of natural rights is potentially dangerous as someone will try to lawyer around them. They are those rights that are natural to our humanity and it is from those rights that people can legitimately form governments to protect and enhance those rights. A government cannot legitimately exercise a power which has not been delegated to it by the people and the people cannot legitimately delegate a power that they do not themselves poses. To do otherwise would be tyranny. For example we each have a right to self defense. Through this right delegated to the government Armies are assembled, police patrol, and any number of government services are created in order to enhance our self defense. However since I can not legitimately deprive you of your right to self defense government as well lacks that right. This is because the collective derive those rights from the individual and therefore does not gain any new rights just because they operate as a collective. ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/324 "2016-11-07T06:31:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Perhaps you didn’t understand the question I asked, which _wasn’t_ “What is the definition and/or origin of common law?” > I asked for a _list_ of _natural rights_. That’s another topic. For this topic, consider > **[Right to keep and bear arms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_keep_and_bear_arms)** > > The right to keep and bear arms (often referred to as the right to bear arms) is a legal right for people to possess weapons (arms) for the preservation of life, liberty, and property. The purpose of gun rights is for self-defense, as well as hunting and sporting activities.: 96  Countries that guarantee a right to keep and bear arms include Albania, Czech Republic, Guatemala, Ukraine, Mexico, the United States, Yemen, and Switzerland. > The Bill of Rights 1689 allowed Protestant citizens of Engla... ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/325 "2016-11-07T06:40:57Z")
Also, a more detailed discussion: “The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms: The Common Law Tradition” [http://www.constitution.org/mil/maltrad.htm](http://www.constitution.org/mil/maltrad.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/326 "2016-11-07T15:19:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Perhaps this is getting to be a bit of a hijack? Perhaps you are correct, so I have started [a new thread asking for people’s lists of their most important Natural Rights.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19758487#post19758487) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/327 "2016-11-07T17:50:09Z")
> [@ralfy](#): > > Also, a more detailed discussion: > > “The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms: The Common Law Tradition” > > [http://www.constitution.org/mil/maltrad.htm](http://www.constitution.org/mil/maltrad.htm) Interesting. It appears that the right to keep and bear arms has been the most disputed right in modern history. Something occasionally recognized by government, always clawed back at the first opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/328 "2016-11-08T10:20:47Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Interesting. It appears that the right to keep and bear arms has been the most disputed right in modern history. Something occasionally recognized by government, always clawed back at the first opportunity. I think there are some more points raised here: > **[Second Amendment to the United States Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Pre-Constitution_background)** > > The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right to keep and bear arms. It was ratified on December 15, 1791, along with nine other articles of the Bill of Rights. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court affirmed for the first time that the right belongs to individuals, for self-defense in the home, while also including, as dicta, that the right is not unlimited and does not preclude the existence of certain long-sta The Second Amend... and the various circumstances behind it: > **[Second Amendment to the United States Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Drafting_and_adoption_of_the_Constitution)** > > The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right to keep and bear arms. It was ratified on December 15, 1791, along with nine other articles of the Bill of Rights. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court affirmed for the first time that the right belongs to individuals, for self-defense in the home, while also including, as dicta, that the right is not unlimited and does not preclude the existence of certain long-sta The Second Amend... and then the drafting and compromises involved: > **[Second Amendment to the United States Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Conflict_and_compromise_in_Congress_produce_the_Bill_of_Rights)** > > The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right to keep and bear arms. It was ratified on December 15, 1791, along with nine other articles of the Bill of Rights. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court affirmed for the first time that the right belongs to individuals, for self-defense in the home, while also including, as dicta, that the right is not unlimited and does not preclude the existence of certain long-sta The Second Amend... where one might realize that the framers were dealing with two separate issues, with the idea of even separating the right to bear arms in another amendment. And finally, what happened to militias for the next few decades: > **[Second Amendment to the United States Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Militia_in_the_decades_following_ratification)** > > The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right to keep and bear arms. It was ratified on December 15, 1791, along with nine other articles of the Bill of Rights. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court affirmed for the first time that the right belongs to individuals, for self-defense in the home, while also including, as dicta, that the right is not unlimited and does not preclude the existence of certain long-sta The Second Amend... Thus, my understanding is that the framers valued individual liberties and wanted to minimize government, but at the same realized that with a weak standing army and undisciplined militias there was a possibility that the new republic would not be able to counter white rebels, Native Americans, slave riots, or European invaders. With that, they created what appears to be a sort of compromise: acknowledge the right to bear arms (which was practiced for decades before the Constitution was written) but use it to justify the need for a common defense (with regulation of militias explained in Art. 1 Sec. 8 and in more detail in the Militia Acts). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326.md?page=16)