# Repealing the 2nd Amendment **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326 "2016-06-14T04:05:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/21 "2016-06-14T13:40:05Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > No, not regulated (i.e., controlled, subject to rules, etc.) militias. The term is [well-regulated](http://www.constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm), and it means in good working order, capable, effective. While it seems archaic now it was widely used and well understood at the time the Constitution was written. The so-called “well-regulated militia” that is currently in place has no chain of command, no roster of troops, no inventory or armory of weaponry or ordnance, no system of logistics… It is not well-regulated by any possible definition of that term, no matter how archaic or whimsical. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/22 "2016-06-14T13:56:48Z")
Assume the Second Amendment is repealed and We The People decide to ban firearms. Under the Fifth Amendment, ‘nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.’ Per [Cornell Law](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fifth_amendment): > [@](#): > > While the federal government has a constitutional right to “take” private property for public use, the Fifth Amendment’s Just Compensation Clause requires the government to pay just compensation, interpreted as market value, to the owner of the property. The U.S. Supreme Court has defined fair market value as the most probable price that a willing but unpressured buyer, fully knowledgeable of both the property’s good and bad attributes, would pay. How much would confiscation cost the taxpayers, given that owners must be compensated at fair market value? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/23 "2016-06-14T14:01:33Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You have to start somewhere. Make manufacture illegal. Make selling illegal. Make ownership illegal. Make ammunition sales illegal. Send teams door to door nationwide with gunpowder-detecting dogs and if they find weapons, seize them and imprison the owners. It wouldn’t be long before guns started filling up the dropoff bins at police stations. The thing I find fascinating is the hypocrisy of this argument (that is NOT directed toward you, **BobLibDem** , as I’ll make clear). I see an correlation between this argument of illegal manufacture, etc. and the right’s fervor regarding banning Muslim immigration. In each case, it’s a twisted form of authoritarianism at its worst, ostensibly for the public good. And neither would work. I’m as anti-gun as the next liberal, but c’mon, going door-to-door and locking up gun owners? (Assuming **BobLibDem** is serious, but somehow, I suspect not – but let’s look at it anyway.) That’s as bad and stupid as rounding up 11 million undocumented workers and deporting them. How could that be done in the real world? Who would pay for it all? It’s as stupid an idea as arming teachers in schools. It’s a fantasy, and belongs on a fictional TV show. Look at it this way. Regardless of how America feels about guns, guns and gunpowder have been around for nearly 1,000 years. In a sense, guns are in our DNA, evoutionarily speaking. (Generations and generations of people have grown up with and around guns, in every part of the world; they’ve been such a part of human society, it’d be like banning the internal combustion engine.) Sure, we can ban certain types of guns (assault rifles), but all guns? Not possible. Control is the way. Even if it’s a constitutional right, I see no other right in the US Constitution that allows literally unlimited freedom. For instance, we have freedom of speech; but it’s limited. We have the right to vote–once for each election. Allowing unlimited guns and types of guns is akin to allowing people to vote as often as they want, whenever they want, wherever they want, with no consequences. TL;DR: Guns are here to stay, but we have to control them. Banning (except certain types) doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/24 "2016-06-14T14:09:38Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > I’m as anti-gun as the next liberal I’m the ‘next liberal’ (well, the previous one in this thread) and I’m not anti-gun. 😛 > [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > Who would pay for it all? Under the Fifth Amendment, the government would pay for it all, which means the taxpayers. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/25 "2016-06-14T14:14:23Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I’m the ‘next liberal’ (well, the previous one in this thread) and I’m not anti-gun. 😛 😃 > [@](#): > > Under the Fifth Amendment, the government would pay for it all, which means the taxpayers. My point exactly. You say you want a revolution…just try making the taxpayers foot the bill for that. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/26 "2016-06-14T14:21:37Z")
And I’m the liberal-after-next and I’m not anti-gun. Oh sure, in an ideal, wave-a-magic-wand world I might consider a gunless America but it’s antithetical to the culture and, short of said wand which can not only remove guns but change minds, it won’t happen. And of course they have their uses.\* What I **would** like is the ability to put in place some sensible restrictions on gun use (something akin to driver licences, with mandatory training and so forth), as my main issue with guns in America is that there are too many armed idiots. I mean, if you think other drivers are bad _now_ imagine if people could buy cars and drive them around with as little effort as it takes to obtain a gun in some parts of the country. Even a little more idiot-proofing would reduce the number of toddler shootings and suchlike. But we can’t even do that, because “The Constitution says I get to have a gun so neener neener neener!”. So sad. \*That said, the UK gets by just fine without guns and armed thugs aren’t constantly breaking into my home despite predictions to the contrary. So there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/27 "2016-06-14T14:25:04Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > You say you want a revolution…just try making the taxpayers foot the bill for that. If We The People want to ban guns, or certain kinds of guns, then we have to pay for it. TANSTAAFL. Conservatives want all sorts of government goods and services, but they don’t want to pay for them and insist taxes be lowered. As a liberal, I think we need to be responsible and pay for the things we get (or want, like UHC). Conservatives say ‘We don’t like [name a social program], so we’re not going to pay for it!’ We (liberals) can’t say ‘We don’t like guns, so we’re not going to pay to get rid of them!’ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/28 "2016-06-14T14:32:36Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I gave several examples in post #4. But I’ll enumerate some more here: > > [ol] > [li]Make background checks include psychiatric history and other relevant data rather than just criminal records[/li][li]States could mandate that gun owners be subject to licensure and that they must pass reasonable safety tests[/li][li]Regulate private sales of semi-autos, so everything has to go through a licensed dealer who will do background checks and maintain records. (So-called “gun show loophole.”) [/li][li]Adequately fund law-enforcement so existing regulations regarding licensed gun dealers are actually enforced[/li][li]States could mandate that gun owners carry liability insurance (the policy would list each gun you own, like car insurance. (This also has the added benefit of establishing another paper trail.))[/li][li]Start holding people liable for knowingly failing to report stolen weapons[/li][li]Improve mandated-reporting laws so weapons can be temporarily confiscated (with due process) from people with psychiatric problems[/li][li]Require gun manufacturers to include better tamper-resistance for serial numbers, e.g. by including RFID chips within the receiver body[/li][/ol] I could live with this. I would like to see these steps implemented then check back in, say, ten years to see if there are measurable results across the board. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/29 "2016-06-14T14:48:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I could live with this. I would like to see these steps implemented then check back in, say, ten years to see if there are measurable results across the board. Civil Liberties groups have a problem with #1. I don’t, but I see their point. I don’t like #5. Maybe have it if you don’t have homeowners’ insurance. AFAIK, #8 isn’t a problem. I’m a little uncomfortable with licensing. When I was in L.A. you needed a license to carry (not to own) a handgun. It was virtually impossible to get a license. I don’t carry a gun, but I have a permit for the novelty. As long as buyers pass the ‘reasonable safety test’ (which I had to do, the last time I bought a handgun in California – and it’s a one-time test) and buyers are otherwise legally allowed to own a firearm, licenses should be ‘shall issue’. A couple of years ago Washington mandated that all firearms (not just semi-autos) sales be subject to a background check, which means licensed dealer involvement. It sounds reasonable to me, but it will personally be a PITA because I’d like to divest myself of 50-some guns. I could live with it too, with a couple of exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/30 "2016-06-14T15:16:46Z")
as far as the semiauto vs automatic definition goes, non gun types get the two sides easily confused, the differences are; Automatic weapon; will continuously fire as long as the trigger is held back, one trigger pull = multiple cartridges fired Semiauto; one cartridge fired per trigger pull, keep the trigger back, nothing happens after the chambered cartridge is fired, to fire again requires the trigger to be released and pulled again The only “automatic” operations a semiauto performs is to eject the fired cartridge brass and chamber the next cartridge The AR-15 is Semiautomatic (also referred to more accurately as “self-loading”) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/31 "2016-06-14T15:58:12Z")
Over twenty years ago I wrote my legislators and asked them to repeal the Second Amendment. I think it’s a fantastic idea. It won’t happen because a significant percentage of Americans are irrational about guns. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/32 "2016-06-14T16:28:08Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Assume the Second Amendment is repealed and We The People decide to ban firearms. Under the Fifth Amendment, ‘nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.’ Per [Cornell Law](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fifth_amendment): > > How much would confiscation cost the taxpayers, given that owners must be compensated at fair market value? Fair market value for an illegal firearm would be at most the scrap value of the metal used to make it. It should be mere pennies per gun. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/33 "2016-06-14T16:36:25Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Fair market value for an illegal firearm would be at most the scrap value of the metal used to make it. It should be mere pennies per gun. Well, the study of economics would correct that erroneous notion. How much is an hour with a prostitute worth? She surely won’t accept pennies merely because of words in a law book. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/34 "2016-06-14T16:39:00Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > If We The People want to ban guns, or certain kinds of guns, then we have to pay for it. TANSTAAFL. Conservatives want all sorts of government goods and services, but they don’t want to pay for them and insist taxes be lowered. As a liberal, I think we need to be responsible and pay for the things we get (or want, like UHC). Conservatives say ‘We don’t like [name a social program], so we’re not going to pay for it!’ We (liberals) can’t say ‘We don’t like guns, so we’re not going to pay to get rid of them!’ I agree, and you’re right. Most people wouldn’t want to pay. Personally, I don’t mind being called a “tax and spend liberal,” because at least that way, things get paid for (theoretically). It’s better than being a “tax cut and spend conservative”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/35 "2016-06-14T16:42:21Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Fair market value for an illegal firearm would be at most the scrap value of the metal used to make it. It should be mere pennies per gun. Incorrect. Fair market value would be the value before the ban. Unless you’re suggesting that the government can take property and say, ‘Well, we’re taking it anyway so it’s worth nothing to you anymore.’? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/36 "2016-06-14T16:46:03Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > Personally, I don’t mind being called a “tax and spend liberal,” because at least that way, things get paid for (theoretically). It’s better than being a “tax cut and spend conservative”. I agree. We pay taxes, and we receive value for the taxes we pay. No one gets _all_ of the direct benefits of taxes, but everyone benefits directly and indirectly. As a nation, we need to decide what value we receive for the money we’re paying to the government. I would rather pay the amount of my health insurance premium to the government so that everyone will have ‘free’ health care. If we decide to ban guns, or certain guns, then we need to pay the price for the value Society receives. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/37 "2016-06-14T16:47:25Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Incorrect. Fair market value would be the value before the ban. Unless you’re suggesting that the government can take property and say, ‘Well, we’re taking it anyway so it’s worth nothing to you anymore.’? Instead of actually handing people cash for guns & ammo, perhaps a tax credit would be a more attractive solution. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/38 "2016-06-14T16:50:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Instead of actually handing people cash for guns & ammo, perhaps a tax credit would be a more attractive solution. I think a tax credit would not be more effective. On the other hand, suppose I have $50,000 worth of firearms and my tax bill is $1,600. A $48,400 tax refund check would be the same as cash. Either way, it would be a logistical nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/39 "2016-06-14T16:56:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > … Under the Fifth Amendment, ‘nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.’… But what if there is no public use? What if they are confiscated and destroyed? Not being a smartass, I probably don’t understand the legal definition of “public use.” Would severely limiting the carrying and transportation of firearms be unconstitutional / feasible? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326/40 "2016-06-14T16:57:45Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Over twenty years ago I wrote my legislators and asked them to repeal the Second Amendment. I think it’s a fantastic idea. > > It won’t happen because a significant percentage of Americans are irrational about guns. Damn those voters for getting their way. They should be told what’s best for them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-2nd-amendment/757326.md?page=3)