# "Repealing the Job-Killing Health Care law act" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 17, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988 "2011-01-17T20:22:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/1 "2011-01-17T20:22:26Z")
I get it. Republicans have a fundamental disagreement about the role of government in our society. They were duly elected to hold a majority in the House of Representatives, and they are determined to pass a law to repeal the “Patient Protection and Affordable Healthcare Act.” That’s their prerogative. But please, for the love of God, for all that is decent and holy, **could they please just change the title of their bill?!** As this article points out, [the claim](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2011/01/theres_no_job-killing_health-c.html) that the the health care law is “job killing” is factually incorrect. > [@](#): > > The GOP lifted the claim from this Congressional Budget Office report (pdf) **– but the report never says the bill will kill jobs. What it says, rather, is that the law will slightly reduce labor. It’s not that employers will fire workers. It’s that potential workers – particularly older ones – will retire somewhat earlier.** [emphasis mine] > > [snipped for brevity] > > I can’t deny, of course, that “The Repealing the Health-Care Law Which Might Slightly Reduce the Long-Term Labor Supply Act of 2011” doesn’t have the same ring to it as “Repealing the Job-Killing Health-Care Law Act.” But civility means sacrifices. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/2 "2011-01-17T20:27:06Z")
I guess their claim that it was a People-Killing Healthcare Bill didn’t work, so they had to find a new scare tactic. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/3 "2011-01-17T20:31:49Z")
Honestly, I think it just makes them look really dumb and immature. When I first heard about this, I assumed it was a joke from the Onion or something. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/4 "2011-01-17T20:36:18Z")
Well, it beats the Go-Ahead to Invade Iraq On A Flimsy Pretext Act of 2003. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/5 "2011-01-17T20:44:00Z")
Like **Blalron** , I understand the fundamental disagreement about the role of government, I just wish they would debate honestly. I think the reason they don’t is because they believe that if they debated honestly, rather than spinning and framing and outright lying, they would lose the debate. It’s like they don’t believe that they can convince people of their world view. Why is that? It seems like they either have doubts about it themselves, or they have doubts about the ability of the American people to understand what’s best for them. Or could it be that their world view includes a wildly disparate class system that the majority of people (who would end up at or near the bottom) would quite naturally reject if they really understood it? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/6 "2011-01-17T20:52:02Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Honestly, I think it just makes them look really dumb and immature. When I first heard about this, I assumed it was a joke from the Onion or something. Yea, I don’t think the name is doing the GOP any favors, it sounds like something grade-schoolers would come up with to make fun of a class they don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/7 "2011-01-17T20:57:34Z")
Eh the lying traitors have a history of this kind of thing. Remember the PATRIOT act, which was anything but? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/8 "2011-01-17T21:01:19Z")
Frankly, I’m amazed the title actually had any connection whatsoever to facts. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/9 "2011-01-17T21:03:44Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Frankly, I’m amazed the title actually had any connection whatsoever to facts. Well, the votes symbolic anyways (it won’t get out of the Senate), so calling it something overly obtuse would sort of kill the point. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/10 "2011-01-17T21:07:00Z")
In the current climate of toning down violent rhetoric, it’s important to note that Boehner has come to favor calling it [‘Job-Crushing’ or ‘Job Destroying’](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/17/boehners-new-word-choice/#more-143247) and not ‘Job-Killing.’ Baby steps. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/11 "2011-01-17T21:41:25Z")
“Crushing” and “destroying” could still be considered pretty violent. How about “job eliminating”? (Of course, removing any reference to jobs would be the best course of action, but we really can’t expect that.) ---
**Author:** ![InterestedObserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@InterestedObserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InterestedObserver)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/12 "2011-01-17T22:03:12Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Like **Blalron** , I understand the fundamental disagreement about the role of government, I just wish they would debate honestly. > > I think the reason they don’t is because they believe that if they debated honestly, rather than spinning and framing and outright lying, they would lose the debate. > > It’s like they don’t believe that they can convince people of their world view. Why is that? It seems like they either have doubts about it themselves, or they have doubts about the ability of the American people to understand what’s best for them. > > Or could it be that their world view includes a wildly disparate class system that the majority of people (who would end up at or near the bottom) would quite naturally reject if they really understood it? Bingo. But you give them more credit that I do…I think most of them KNOW damn good and well that their agenda benefits a tiny minority and harms the nation overall…they are businessmen and lobbyists, almost to a one. THEY are the ones Franklin warned us about (“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” ) yet they manage to convince us that it is really the poor, the elderly, the working class, the ill, etc.. in other words, the other 97% of us, who are robbing us blind. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/13 "2011-01-17T22:13:23Z")
_shrug_ The name echos with their base, and a lot of their base believes that the HCR was pushed down the American tax payers throats, and that it will have a hugely negative effect on the economy (and already is, to them). By making the name of the bill so aggressively antagonistic the Republicans are showing their base that They Mean Business™…and that if the bill is shot down, it’s because the evil Dems WANT to kill jobs (or whatever). -XT ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/14 "2011-01-17T22:14:00Z")
> [@InterestedObserver](#): > > Bingo. But you give them more credit that I do…I think most of them KNOW damn good and well that their agenda benefits a tiny minority and harms the nation overall…they are businessmen and lobbyists, almost to a one. THEY are the ones Franklin warned us about (“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” ) yet they manage to convince us that it is really the poor, the elderly, the working class, the ill, etc.. in other words, the other 97% of us, who are robbing us blind. :dubious: Your point about what Franklin said is excellent. I’ve never heard it put that way before but it is right on the mark. A light bulb just went on for me. It _is_ the wealthy that are doing what Franklin warned about. It only takes a moments reflection to realize that if some group is abusing the system to extract money that it’s not the poor. If it were the poor they wouldn’t be poor, right? Not all wealthy people are guilty of this, obviously. But, also obviously, if you’re looking for someone who is successfully abusing the system then you have to look for them amongst successful people, not the struggling poor. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/15 "2011-01-17T22:14:35Z")
The sad reality is that if they manage to repeal even the mild attempt at health care reform, then the current system will\*\* continue to\*\* \*\*kill \*\*jobs. > **[Yes, Health Insurance Is A Small Business Killer](https://www.businessinsider.com/yes-health-insurance-is-a-small-business-killer-2009-7)** > [@](#): > > Yes, Health Insurance Is A Small Business Killer (WMT) > > …Small businesses also pay more for health insurance than large companies. According to the Commonwealth Fund, small businesses now pay 18 percent more than large businesses pay to obtain comparable insurance. > > A third effect of the tremendous rise in health insurance costs over the last decade has been to impose a huge financial burden on new companies. The cost for the average new company to provide its employees with family health insurance at the average cost for firms of its size (as reported by the Kaiser Family Foundation) is now $68,611 a year, more than double what it was 10 years ago. Granted, some of those costs aren’t paid by the employers, and some employees have individual coverage, making the actual numbers paid by employers lower, but it’s still a huge figure in comparison to new-firm revenue. According to the Kauffman Firm Survey, the average three-year old surviving firm generates only $152,000 in revenue annually. > > Finally, because leaving a job to start a business causes one to give up employer health insurance, the employer-based health insurance system in this country is keeping some people from becoming entrepreneurs. A recent working paper by Rob Fairlie of University of California Santa Cruz estimates that workers with employer-provided health insurance have 2.5 to 3.9 percent lower odds of becoming self-employed than those without health insurance, suggesting that health insurance affects the start-up decision. > > When politicians talk about small businesses and startups being the key to our economic future, are they being serious, or is it all rhetoric that sounds good? Because when you’re basing health policy on what’s good for Wal-Mart, which can buy healthcare cheaply, you’re making a very big decision about employment economics in a manner that favors big, stable business, to the detriment of small ones. [http://www.businessweek.com/blogs/money\_politics/archives/2009/07/study\_links\_ris.html](http://www.businessweek.com/blogs/money_politics/archives/2009/07/study_links_ris.html) > [@](#): > > Study Links Rise in Health Care Costs to Job Losses > > In a first-of-its-kind study, the non-profit Rand Corp linked the rapid growth in U.S. health care costs to job losses and lower output. The study, published online by the journal Health Services Research, gives weight to President Barack Obama’s dire warnings about the impact of rising costs if Congress does not enact health care reform. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > This study provides some of the first evidence that the rapid rise in health care costs has negative consequences for several U.S. industries,” said Neeraj Sood, the study’s lead author and a senior economist at RAND. “Industries where more workers receive employer-sponsored health insurance are hit the hardest by rising health care costs. > > To rule out the possibility that the economic effects were caused by some other industry-wide factor, the researchers compared U.S. industries with their counterparts in Canada, which has publicly financed universal health care. They found no similar percent change in employment in the corresponding Canadian industries over the 19-year study period. > > The rate of growth in U.S. health care costs has outpaced the growth rate in the gross domestic product (GDP) for many years. In 1940, the share of GDP accounted for by health care spending was just 4.5%. By 1990, it had reached 12.2%, and 16% in 2005, when health care spending totaled nearly $2 trillion, or $6,697 per person, far more than any other nation. This year health care spending is on track to equal 18% of GDP. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/16 "2011-01-17T22:22:06Z")
Well, you have to give the Republicans credit for chutzpah. They are always skillful at “framing” with language. The more basic the better. I keep expecting a bill named “Fuzzy kittens - for the children!” which, of course, would be a weapons bill. Or a bill named “bad bad stinky poo-poo” which, of course, would be something aimed at outlawing swarthy people. The Democrats just don’t have this game figured out. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/17 "2011-01-17T22:23:44Z")
Can the bill be thrown out on the grounds that no “Job-Killing Health Care Law” exists and you can’t repeal a law that isn’t on the books in the first place? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/18 "2011-01-18T02:17:32Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > The Democrats just don’t have this game figured out. Can’t. What little shame we have prevents it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/19 "2011-01-18T02:18:32Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Well, you have to give the Republicans credit for chutzpah. They are always skillful at “framing” with language. The more basic the better. I keep expecting a bill named “Fuzzy kittens - for the children!” which, of course, would be a weapons bill. Or a bill named “bad bad stinky poo-poo” which, of course, would be something aimed at outlawing swarthy people. > > The Democrats just don’t have this game figured out. In truth, [they really don’t.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/26/AR2010122602374.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988/20 "2011-01-18T02:23:58Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > As this article points out, [the claim](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2011/01/theres_no_job-killing_health-c.html) that the the health care law is “job killing” is factually incorrect. That’s not an “article”, it’s an opinion piece. Other than that, what is the debate? You don’t like the marketing approach the GOP is using? Hard to get too worked up about that… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repealing-the-job-killing-health-care-law-act/567988.md?page=2)