# Repeated calls from numbers not in service. What the hell? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 25, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057 "2019-04-25T21:58:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/21 "2019-04-26T04:21:36Z")
ive had the home number call me while i was on said phone ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/22 "2019-04-26T04:54:52Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Ive never received any spiel. Not once. Ive never heard another human voice even once. Ive never heard a sound at all even once. Given how many times this has happened, I would think I would have connected to someone by now if there actually WAS a spiel involved somehow. But this could be… > > Re “live” numbers, why would you need someone to answer in order to discern if it was active? They could be anywhere in the world. They have an automatic dialling system which randomly hits on numbers, and when somebody answers, it connects to an operator their end. The system displays to the operator the name attached to the number they’re connected to, so that they can make it sound as though they deliberately called you, and it displays to you a number that looks local. They then launch into a spiel designed, one way or another, to get money out of you: either by giving them your credit card details for a phoney call-blocking service, or by frightening you into downloading some “security” software on to your computer that would actually let them collect your ID data, or some other scam. Often such systems don’t connect through to their operator immediately, which is why you get silent calls - an operator their end might not even pick it up. Doesn’t matter to them: it only takes one or two people in a thousand or more such random calls to fall for it, to make it a profitable operation for them. Ignore them. Don’t call back to a number you don’t recognise. Don’t hang on waiting for someone to speak if it’s a silent call from a number you don’t recognise. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/23 "2019-04-26T06:15:15Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Often such systems don’t connect through to their operator immediately, which is why you get silent calls - an operator their end might not even pick it up. They will have a limited number of operators but he dialler will continuously try numbers so that, when an operator becomes free, there is a good chance there is a live number ready for them. They don’t care that a large % of calls will get cut off because all operators are busy. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/24 "2019-04-26T09:16:48Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Is it legal for them to do this? Just try to arrest someone in India for violating a USA law. > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > It sounds like they are collecting “live” numbers. This sort of behavior is why I don’t answer my phone anymore. > [@slash2k](#): > > I’m guessing that the callers are ringing every possible telephone number in OP’s exchange, either in an effort to determine which ones are “live” or simply to see who’ll answer and be gullible. That does very likely involve an automated dialer. I see nothing to indicate that OP has been pre-selected to receive the call, and certainly nothing to suggest they’re dialing by hand. This info, which is often repeated and may have once been true, is now obsolete. The multiple-dialing services do not collect numbers or maintain lists of “active” or “inactive” numbers. Instead, they dial all possible numbers in an area code, continuously and often. They may insert a random, fake, CID for each; the style nowadays is to pretend to be a local number, thinking you are more likely to answer if a neighbor is calling (neighbor spoofing). How likely is it that you answer if the CID said, “Another Crook from India is calling”? This way, they don’t miss any number that might have changed its status from active, answering, or non-answering. Since this entire principle is self-limiting (people are getting wise and answering less), they need the highest possible volume, and absolutely don’t care if they reach the same number multiple times. They also don’t care if they get rejected multiple times – the next time, they might find a sucker, and they don’t want to overlook those! This is also why the DNC list is a total joke. No calling boiler room pays the slightest attention to it, nor can they be prosecuted for violations. To test my theory, not long ago I received multiple calls (11 one day!) with a CID of my own number. Obviously this was fake, but I wanted to find out if answering would increase or decrease the calls; both claims have been made (if you answer, they know your line is live and will call again; if you don’t answer, they keep calling since they haven’t determined your status yet). So after 5 calls without answering, I answered. Then I got 4 more that I did not answer, but surely from the same source. This suggests that it makes no difference if you answer or not. See this good response: > [@ticker](#): > > They will have a limited number of operators but he dialler will continuously try numbers so that, when an operator becomes free, there is a good chance there is a live number ready for them. They don’t care that a large % of calls will get cut off because all operators are busy. Why do they show CIDs that expand to non-working numbers? To make it impossible for you to trace these calls from crooks. And they _all_ are crooks if they called you without your request. No legitimate business does this anymore. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/25 "2019-04-26T13:12:54Z")
Note: While these calls generally originate via the Internet using VoIP technology, they still need their calls to end up being routed to the classic phone network in the US. (If they are actually connecting to a phone network overseas and _then_ to the US, the costs would be prohibitive for mass robodialers.) So they have to have contracts with US telecoms for that end. These companies know perfectly well what these people are doing. They make money off of them. Some of which they then spend on lobbying to ensure that no laws are passed to force them to stop working with these people. (So you get lame "This is just too technologically hard … " excuses.) Also, keep in mind that US companies like Wells Fargo and Comcast are _major_ robocallers and they don’t want any changes to laws that would affect them either. ---
**Author:** ![vonespy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vonespy/32/6204_2.png) [@vonespy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vonespy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/26 "2019-04-26T14:19:09Z")
The original WSJ article is behind a paywall but this link gives the general idea: > **[Robocallers Win Even if You Don't Answer - Slashdot](https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/06/05/2116216/robocallers-win-even-if-you-dont-answer)** > > Sarah Krouse, reporting for WSJ: Caller ID is feeding one of the very problems it was developed to stop: junk calls. Illegitimate robocallers, or outfits that flood American landlines with marketing calls, use the decades-old identification system to... TL;DR: scammers own Caller ID databases that report back caller info when you place a call. A small amount of cash is transferred from phone company to Caller ID database company. So the scam is that the Caller ID database companies apparently pay scammer call centers to place millions of calls that spoof the numbers that their database covers. It’s almost a salami attack for those of you in the cybersecurity field. The tiny amounts of money get big when millions of fractions of fractions of cents are transferred to the caller ID companies. You’ve got to give them credit, it’s quite an innovative scam. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/27 "2019-04-26T14:30:08Z")
> [@suretytek](#): > > The original WSJ article is behind a paywall but this link gives the general idea: > > [Robocallers Win Even if You Don't Answer - Slashdot](https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/06/05/2116216/robocallers-win-even-if-you-dont-answer) > > TL;DR: scammers own Caller ID databases that report back caller info when you place a call. A small amount of cash is transferred from phone company to Caller ID database company. So the scam is that the Caller ID database companies apparently pay scammer call centers to place millions of calls that spoof the numbers that their database covers. It’s almost a salami attack for those of you in the cybersecurity field. The tiny amounts of money get big when millions of fractions of fractions of cents are transferred to the caller ID companies. > > You’ve got to give them credit, it’s quite an innovative scam. There is a related scam where autodialers call 800 numbers, also to get fractions of a cent for getting a connection, but multiply that by tens of millions and you have a tidy sum for virtually no effort. (Reply All podcast) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/28 "2019-04-26T15:09:53Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Up until the last 2 or 3 years it was quite common for people to call back when they had a missed call from an unknown number. It could be argued that that ability was one of the things that made caller ID so useful in the first place. Even back in ye olde landline caller ID days, I didn’t get the point of calling back an unknown number who didn’t leave a message. I just always assumed it was a wrong number. It always kind of annoyed me that when I misdialed numbers, sometimes they would call me back. People do still seem to call back numbers, though, as very occasionally I will get a call on my phone from some guy saying “who is calling me from this number” when I never called them. I have to briefly explain that it’s probably my number being spoofed and to ignore it, as I didn’t call them. > [@nightshadea](#): > > ive had the home number call me while i was on said phone Yep, that happened to me, as well, once. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/29 "2019-04-26T15:15:27Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Up until the last 2 or 3 years it was quite common for people to call back when they had a missed call from an unknown number. It could be argued that that ability was one of the things that made caller ID so useful in the first place. I guess everybody does things differently but I have never called back just based on a caller ID if I didn’t know who it was and they didn’t leave a message. Just because someone wants to talk to me doesn’t mean I want to talk to them. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/30 "2019-04-26T15:20:33Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I guess everybody does things differently but I have never called back just based on a caller ID if I didn’t know who it was and they didn’t leave a message. Just because someone wants to talk to me doesn’t mean I want to talk to them. just the other day, I saw someone I didn’t know – local, presumably – on my CID list. Must be an Indian robodialer, no? But I called it back, and behold! It was someone who I really wanted to talk to, but never left a message. So I can’t ignore these calls. It might be real business. The moral of the story? Always leave a message, or you may have wasted the time of _two_ parties, not just yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/31 "2019-04-26T15:29:01Z")
> [@suretytek](#): > > The original WSJ article is behind a paywall but this link gives the general idea: > > [Robocallers Win Even if You Don't Answer - Slashdot](https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/06/05/2116216/robocallers-win-even-if-you-dont-answer) [Here’s the original article.](http://doorbell.net/junk/robocallers.pdf) Excerpt: > [@](#): > > The chain of transactions in many other illegal robocalling schemes works like this: Scammers purchase a block of unused telephone numbers and submit bogus names and addresses for those numbers to caller-ID databases. > > They often hire call centers to blast out millions of robocalls, which trigger queries to caller-ID databases. Some databases are run by carriers themselves such as AT&T Inc., while others are operated by other companies such as Neustar Inc. > > The recipient’s carrier pays a small fee for that information request when it delivers a name, typically between $0.0025 and $0.005, according to people who operate the databases. Some databases then pass a portion of that micropayment back to the company that controls the calling phone number, the company completing the call or their client. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/32 "2019-04-26T15:58:24Z")
Yesterday I got a robocall that appeared to come from a number that, when I looked it up, turned out to be Mike Pence’s fax number. It left me a prerecorded voicemail in Mandarin. I don’t know what it said. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/33 "2019-04-26T16:15:26Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Yesterday I got a robocall that appeared to come from a number that, when I looked it up, turned out to be Mike Pence’s fax number. It left me a prerecorded voicemail in Mandarin. I don’t know what it said. The Chinese Connection? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/34 "2019-04-26T16:19:55Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > The Chinese Connection? Think I should have forwarded it to the [del]FBI[/del] House Oversight Committee? ---
**Author:** ![Jet\_Jaguar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jet_jaguar/32/3562_2.png) [@Jet\_Jaguar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jet_Jaguar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/35 "2019-04-26T17:48:29Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Yesterday I got a robocall that appeared to come from a number that, when I looked it up, turned out to be Mike Pence’s fax number. It left me a prerecorded voicemail in Mandarin. I don’t know what it said. We’ve gotten a scam call like that, and my wife is from China so was able to understand the message. It was something about the Chinese consolate having a package for us, and to call back to make arrangements. We didn’t, though I assume there would be a “courier fee” of some sort requested. Perhaps they are spoofing numbers from a range of government exchanges in an attempt to make it look legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/36 "2019-04-26T22:11:52Z")
> [@Jet\_Jaguar](#): > > We’ve gotten a scam call like that, and my wife is from China so was able to understand the message. It was something about the Chinese consolate having a package for us, and to call back to make arrangements. We didn’t, though I assume there would be a “courier fee” of some sort requested. Perhaps they are spoofing numbers from a range of government exchanges in an attempt to make it look legitimate. [Here](https://www.pcmag.com/news/367491/chinese-embassy-robocall-scam-rakes-in-40m-from-victims) is an article about this scam. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/37 "2019-04-26T22:14:21Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Curiosity. Unless you are a business, you shouldn’t, since you’d just be annoying the poor person whose number was spoofed. And you should get NoMoRobo. Almost all calls get hung up on in one ring. The rest hang up when our answering machine beeps. Though I do miss insulting the morals of the mothers of the Indian Windows Company scammers. Got some of them really mad at me. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/38 "2019-04-27T00:53:47Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Unless you are a business, you shouldn’t, since you’d just be annoying the poor person whose number was spoofed. What are you talking about? My curiosity has no negative consequences for anyone. I’m not annoying anyone because the spoofed numbers ARE NOT IN SERVICE. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/39 "2019-04-27T01:21:03Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > What are you talking about? My curiosity has no negative consequences for anyone. I’m not annoying anyone because the spoofed numbers ARE NOT IN SERVICE. Some criminals don’t have the scruples you wish they had. Not all spoofed numbers are inactive. Why should anyone in India care? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057/40 "2019-04-27T01:52:10Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > What are you talking about? My curiosity has no negative consequences for anyone. I’m not annoying anyone because the spoofed numbers ARE NOT IN SERVICE. Not too long ago I got a call and I could see on my caller ID that I was getting a call from someone with my area code and first three digits of my telephone number. I answered “hello”, and there was a guy on the other end of the line that said “hi, you just called me and hung up.” I told him that I didn’t and then explained what probably happened regarding my number being spoofed. He thanked me for the explanation and apologized for bothering me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repeated-calls-from-numbers-not-in-service-what-the-hell/833057.md?page=3)