# Replcement for "Pot calling the kettle black" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 22, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383 "2004-07-22T18:18:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/21 "2004-07-22T22:18:16Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Luciano Pavarotti calling Leslie West svelte. Doo doo doo do doo, Miss-i-sip-pi Quee-een ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/22 "2004-07-22T22:24:26Z")
Well done **gotpasswords** I couldn’t come up with a Doper specific one… ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/23 "2004-07-22T22:57:46Z")
(Hi.) De-lurking because I was literally just standing in the shower wondering if “niggardly” was a word that would get me busted by the (ignorant) PC cops nowadays. And yes, [I know its entymology has nothing to do with the “n” word](http://www.etymonline.com/n2etym.htm) - but many folks don’t, and I can actually understand the mistake. Do I fight the good fight, use the word and risk offending the ignorant? Or should I be respectful of folks’ feelings and not use a word I know is likely to offend - albeit unintentionally (and incorrectly)? 😕 It’s just such a wonderful word… ---
**Author:** ![PussyCow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@PussyCow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PussyCow)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/24 "2004-07-22T23:05:06Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > (Hi.) > > De-lurking because I was literally just standing in the shower wondering if “niggardly” was a word that would get me busted by the (ignorant) PC cops nowadays. > > And yes, [I know its entymology has nothing to do with the “n” word](http://www.etymonline.com/n2etym.htm) - but many folks don’t, and I can actually understand the mistake. Do I fight the good fight, use the word and risk offending the ignorant? Or should I be respectful of folks’ feelings and not use a word I know is likely to offend - albeit unintentionally (and incorrectly)? 😕 > > It’s just such a wonderful word… I say use it. We’re supposed to fight ignorance, right? If you can see someone gets offended, gently tell them the definition. Enlighten them! Maybe you can think up an example of a word that sounds nasty but isn’t as an example (I can’t right now). ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/25 "2004-07-22T23:34:09Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > That’s like: > Elvis calling Andy Kaufman dead. That one is really good. I think I’ll adopt the Dalmatian/leopard one for general use. (fighting a little ignorance here, Dalmatian is spelled with an ian, not ion at the end. Think of them being from Dalmatia) My contribution, it’s like the doughnut calling the french fry fattening. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/26 "2004-07-23T00:18:01Z")
Though nigardly, flip, nip etc. are perfectly valid words, it would IMHO be rude to repeatedly and intentionally use nigardly arround black people, flip arround Filipino people nip arround Japanese people. I mean nothing is wrong with nigardly used correctly and with good reason, but if someone makes special effort to allways call a frugal black person a nigard they are just being an ass. Back On Topic. like an 18"DHIBJD calling a 1920’s style death ray scary ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/27 "2004-07-23T03:26:52Z")
An actual variant, from a 90s version of the Encarta encyclopedia (it is used as a sample of some language, I think Eastern European), is “the owl tells the sparrow he has a big head.” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/28 "2004-07-23T03:46:03Z")
I hardly think Omarosa is a credible authority. 😉 How about: “That’s the Irishman calling the Russian a drunk!” ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/29 "2004-07-23T05:11:41Z")
That’s like a HooLooVoo calling an Andorian blue. That’s like a Time Lord calling Q meddling. That’s like a the Borg calling Daleks obsessive. That’s like Harry Sullivan calling a Pakled an idiot. That’s like Wesley Crusher calling Neelix annoying. That’s like a Whovian calling a Trekker geeky. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Beauty\_Personified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@Beauty\_Personified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beauty_Personified)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/30 "2004-07-23T06:15:16Z")
_That’s like my mother calling me a son of a bitch!_ (Love ya, mom! 😉 ) Anyhoo… ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/31 "2004-07-23T08:09:02Z")
“Nice chinos, Mr. Blackwell.” “Hey, dance tips from Michael Stipe!” “Charo here thinks I’m dressed inappropriately!” “Parenting advice from Steve Erwin.” ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/32 "2004-07-23T11:07:09Z")
Firstly, for a long time black has been associated with evil; it seems natural that there is a ‘bad’ connotation – or perhaps, just a dirty connotation – here. (Though all colours have many connotations. We can’t stop using them all.) But secondly, I’ve occasionally heard other versions of the phrase, and they sound just as natural. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/33 "2004-07-23T12:37:32Z")
> [@PussyCow](#): > > I agree with Loach that it is very far from a racist statement. > > However, more acurately, the saying comes from a time when stoves were wood-burning, and the pot and kettle would become coated in black soot. I’ve been brought up in a remote, backward village, and most of my relatives living there were elderly former farmers. They often cooked various things in the fireplace, and had old kitchenware. So, the first time I read the english sentence “It’s the pot calling the kettle black”, I immediatly figured out the meaning. A kettle which has been used for years in a fireplace is most definitely blackened by soot (actually, the soot eventually form a kind of black “crust” on the outside of the kettle). Believing that this saying has a racist origin seems a very convoluted interpretation. Pots and kettles have been as obviously black as the sky is blue for hundreds of years. For the record, the equivalent french sentence means something like “It’s the hospital making fun of the clinic”. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/34 "2004-07-23T12:46:12Z")
I always thought the phrase referred to cast ironware. They are all black so to compare them is just stupid. Kiwis (this may offend the more classy Kiwi) are big on minimalist speech (ok not as much as Aussies maybe). Common phrases here include “sweet as”, “good as”, “bad as”, “black as”. You get the picture. Try it. You might like it 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/35 "2004-07-23T16:44:37Z")
Long-time lurker, new guest member checking in! 🙂 For what it’s worth, the equivalent expression in Taiwanese (that I grew up hearing from my dad) roughly translates as “The tortoise mocks the turtle for having no tail.” I also enjoyed the original Yiddish phrase that entered the English vocabulary as “Look who’s talking”, but I can’t remember it off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/36 "2004-07-23T17:39:18Z")
Isn’t that kinda like the sieve saying the collandar leaks? ---
**Author:** ![DaToad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@DaToad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaToad)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/37 "2004-07-23T17:59:42Z")
It’s like a cesspool telling a septic tank it’s full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/38 "2004-07-23T18:34:18Z")
It’s like Omarosa calling the kettle black. (there, now THAT’S a little racist.) ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/39 "2004-07-23T20:13:35Z")
I think the significance of the pot calling the hettle black is that the pot has reason to think it’s not black itself. As numerous others have pointed out, the pot eventually became black because of all the soot, but it wasn’t black originally. Presumably, the kettle’s always been black because it was made out of cast iron. So I think in order to bring the phrase up-to-date, we have to use a person/place/thing that has reason to believe it is of a certain characteristic, which has changed with the passage of time to become similar to a corresponding person/place/thing that would be considered of lower status. I dunno, something like PETA calling Southern Baptists fanatics. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383/40 "2004-07-24T01:35:17Z")
It’s like Jessica Simpson’s head calling Al Capone’s vault empty. It’s like Windows calling dog sh\*t a piece of crap. It’s like Bill Gates calling a pint of Chubby Hubby rich. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/replcement-for-pot-calling-the-kettle-black/256383.md?page=3)