### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/1 "2003-09-25T01:46:26Z")
[The Beeb](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3135932.stm)
The group that’s been searching for WMDs in Iraq is about to publish an interim report that says they flat aren’t there:
> [@](#):
>
> No weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq by the group looking for them, according to a Bush administration source who has spoken to the BBC.
>
> \
>
> the report will say its inspectors have not even unearthed “minute amounts of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons material”.
>
> They have also not uncovered any laboratories involved in deploying weapons of mass destruction and no delivery systems for the weapons.
Those dirty Ba’athists must have snuck them out before the war, right? Wrong.
> [@](#):
>
> …the draft report - which the source said is due to be published next month - concludes that it is highly unlikely that weapons of mass destruction were shipped out of the country to places like Syria before the US-led war on Iraq.
So when is enough enough for the Shrubbites. When will you finally give up and admit that there were _never_ any WMDs, there was _never_ any imminent threat and that this invasion was staged under false pretenses? (Please don’t give me “Saddam was a bad guy .” We all know damn well that’s not a justification)
Bush told us that he had double. super duper, extra- secret intelligence that _proved_ that Iraq had WMDs aimed right at the US. He wasn’t guessing. He didn’t say “probably.” He said he _knew_ that these weapons existed. When can we all just admit that he was lying?
And if lying about a blow job is impeachable then what do we do with a guy who lies his way into a war?
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### Author:  [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/2 "2003-09-25T03:03:30Z")
Color me surprised.
No wonder Blix was having such trouble finding them.
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### Author:  [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/3 "2003-09-25T03:16:35Z")
Digmeister, get with the program. The invasion was about attracting the terrorists to Iraq, where we could fight them over there, it was always about attracting the terrorists to Iraq. It was never about WMD. That is an unthought.
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### Author:  [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/4 "2003-09-25T03:25:33Z")
See? This war was a great success! Saddam has no weapons of mass destruction now! Go USA!
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### Author:  [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/5 "2003-09-25T03:34:31Z")
**DtC** is right. America should just give Iraq back to Saddam and leave.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/6 "2003-09-25T03:50:29Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Brutus \*
> \*\ ***DtC** is right. America should just give Iraq back to Saddam and leave. \*\*
You’re half right.
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### Author:  [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/7 "2003-09-25T03:56:37Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Brutus \*
> \*\ ***DtC** is right. America should just give Iraq back to Saddam and leave. \*\*
What? Is this the standard response to any thing that suggests that the invasion of Iraq was ill advised and based (to be charitable) on erroneous information?
The Senator from New Mexico when off on the same tangent today (yesterday?) when it was suggested that just maybe there was no mandate to bring democracy to Iraq. No one that I know of on this board has suggested that the US ought to now pack up and pull out. That would clearly be irresponsible, just as irresponsible as invading Iraq in the first place.
If there ever was a time for those who bound themselves to the credibility of the Administration’s theory to ‘fess up and concede that, if nothing else, those of us who thought the invasion to be a bad idea and based on a doubtful pretext did not take that view from partisan bias and hatred of our country. To respond with the inference that people who objected to the invasion now want to withdraw is the worse sort of straw man argument and not a little dishonest. I can understand a degree of chagrin on the part of people who whole heartedly supported the invasion, but I expect better than this from what I thought were stand-up guys.
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### Author:  [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/8 "2003-09-25T04:04:05Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \*
> So when is enough enough for the Shrubbites[?]
[Thanksgiving](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=3589852#post3589852). Oh, how I await the gigantic portion of crow that will be served on that glorious day. Mmmmm, crow with lying bastards stuffing. Then, on the day after Thanksgiving, crow sandwiches covered in sucker sauce. And don’t forget the crow soup!
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/9 "2003-09-25T04:11:51Z")
**Brutus** : Do you see anything wrong in the assertion that, although many reasons were given for the invasion, many of which can be argued as good and worthwhile, that the WMD charge was presented as a very serious one, and that the longer they aren’t found, the greater chance there is that this charge was mistaken (thus showing serious intel problems or willful blindness) or fraudulent, and that therefore it should be investigated?
Because I don’t think most folks are saying anything more or less than that. What evidence do you have that those who assert there were no WMDs in Iraq are supporters of Saddam, especially if, as you seem to believe, there were other reasons?
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### Author:  [@Not\_In\_Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_In_Anger)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/10 "2003-09-25T04:13:58Z")
Oh Gee, Can I Be The First To Say?
Yes, the US should admit their astonishing intelligence mistake, and pull out now without any preconditions. There were no WMD’s. There was never any evidence of any WMD’s, unlike the ignored North Korea (let alone Pakistan, for God’s sake). Iraq was never the US’s business. It was always a UN jurisdiction, and the UN will take over, just if the US gets their people out, with no conditions.
Holy moly!
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### Author:  [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/11 "2003-09-25T04:31:20Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Not In Anger \*
> \*\*Oh Gee, Can I Be The First To Say?
>
> Yes, the US should admit their astonishing intelligence mistake, and pull out now without any preconditions. There were no WMD’s. There was never any evidence of any WMD’s, unlike the ignored North Korea (let alone Pakistan, for God’s sake). Iraq was never the US’s business. It was always a UN jurisdiction, and the UN will take over, just if the US gets their people out, with no conditions.
>
> Holy moly! \*\*
Oh no we don’t. It’s our own freaking fault Iraq is now in the mess it is in now, and we had dang well better fix it before leaving. The American public and Congress bought into this lie hook, line, and sinker, and we should NOT make the Iraqis pay the price for our own idiocy. What this means is quite simply, we should cede control to the UN, and put up whatever money is necessary to get this country on its feet again, with all the infrastructure destroyed and power breakdown. We should offer troops, money, or services, whatever necessary, but the UN should be running the operation. We got ourselves INTO the mess, now we need to clean it up.
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### Author:  [@Not\_In\_Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_In_Anger)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/12 "2003-09-25T04:41:18Z")
Well, I entirely agree. The US should provide the money, and get out, with no conditions. The UN should provide the men. Not the other away around as Mr. Bush seems to be trying to express. To the extent that anyone has any idea what he is trying to express at this point. Besides panic.
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### Author:  [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/13 "2003-09-25T04:50:50Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Netbrian \*
> \*\*Oh no we don’t. It’s our own freaking fault Iraq is now in the mess it is in now, and we had dang well better fix it before leaving. The American public and Congress bought into this lie hook, line, and sinker, and we should NOT make the Iraqis pay the price for our own idiocy. What this means is quite simply, we should cede control to the UN, and put up whatever money is necessary to get this country on its feet again, with all the infrastructure destroyed and power breakdown. We should offer troops, money, or services, whatever necessary, but the UN should be running the operation. We got ourselves INTO the mess, now we need to clean it up. \*\*
Nobody talks anymore about giving Kosovo back to the Kosovars.
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### Author:  [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/14 "2003-09-25T04:57:37Z")
Hollywood [Wag the Dog](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120885/): Before elections, a spin-doctor and a Hollywood producer join efforts to “fabricate” a war in order to cover-up a presidential sex scandal.
Bush Wag the Dog: The Bush Administration, knowing they will not be able to effect their vast religious right-wing conspiracy agenda on the American People, nor actually do anything to help the economy (except for the rich), nor quietly succeed in diverting tax dollars to corporate friends, instead support the fabrication of stories about WMDs in Iraq and blame Saddam for 9/11, use these allegations as justification for a war to secure oil revenues for business profits, and continue to blame the previous administration for el Nino, hangnails and Krispy Kreme proliferation.
😃
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### Author:  [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/15 "2003-09-25T06:32:52Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Leaper \*
> \*\ ***Brutus** : Do you see anything wrong in the assertion that, although many reasons were given for the invasion, many of which can be argued as good and worthwhile, that the WMD charge was presented as a very serious one, and that the longer they aren’t found, the greater chance there is that this charge was mistaken (thus showing serious intel problems or willful blindness) or fraudulent, and that therefore it should be investigated?
>
> Because I don’t think most folks are saying anything more or less than that. What evidence do you have that those who assert there were no WMDs in Iraq are supporters of Saddam, especially if, as you seem to believe, there were other reasons? \*\*
Oh, I’ll grant that we have serious intelligence problems. The CIA has been a neutered beast since the Church Commision, and has served America poorly, when at all, ever since. The Bush Admistration should have long ago abolished the CIA, and replaced it with something with teeth, along the lines of the Mossad, or British Intelligence. Even the KGB was probably a more effective intelligence gathering and analysing body than the CIA.
Certainly, blindly trusting the BBC, in matters of Iraq and WMD, is a dicey proposition. We all know what happened to their last ‘unnamed source’, after the BBC decided to sex-up its ‘reporting’ on the while affair.
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### Author:  [@spanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spanna)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/16 "2003-09-25T07:22:26Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Certainly, blindly trusting the BBC, in matters of Iraq and WMD, is a dicey proposition. We all know what happened to their last ‘unnamed source’, after the BBC decided to sex-up its ‘reporting’ on the while affair.
Have you been following the Hutton Enquiry into this at all.
Theres a lot of anger on Govt side over ONE PHRASE in ONE UNSCRIPTED REPORT.
Just about everything else appears to be backing up the Gilligans claims.
After all the spin, half truths and deceits both UK & US govts have spouted its a bit rich to be trying to pick apart one report for one “ill considered phrase”
At this moment in time I’d rather trust a reporter than a politician (and I don’t have a high opinion of reporters)
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/17 "2003-09-25T07:22:45Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Brutus \*
> **Oh, I’ll grant that we have serious intelligence problems. The CIA has been a neutered beast since the Church Commision, and has served America poorly, when at all, ever since. The Bush Admistration should have long ago abolished the CIA, and replaced it with something with teeth, along the lines of the Mossad, or British Intelligence. Even the KGB was probably a more effective intelligence gathering and analysing body than the CIA.**
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
does not become a monster.” –Nietzsche
AFAICR the CIA had the info but no one connected the dots, or I should say: they had the teeth but no coordination; one should take into account that at the same time, our fearless “captain army flextime” was cherry picking the info he wanted to see.
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*Certainly, blindly trusting the BBC, in matters of Iraq and WMD, is a dicey proposition. We all know what happened to their last ‘unnamed source’, after the BBC decided to sex-up its ‘reporting’ on the while affair. \*\*
😕 Maybe we do need the tin foil hat smilie!
In any case, AFAICR the BBC accused the British Government of sexing up the WMD reports, They are now finding that their original assessment was on the money, David Kelly’s death was seen more as a minus to the British government than to the BBC, so I am not sure what your point is here.
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### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/18 "2003-09-25T08:07:21Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Brutus \*
> \*\ ***DtC** is right. America should just give Iraq back to Saddam and leave. \*\*
Aw come on, **Brutus**. No one has suggested that and I think that you must know it.
Obviously, or at least I suppose it is obvious, we can’t leave now. I do think, though, that it isn’t a bit out of line to hold GW accountable the next time the opportunity comes in the voting booth.
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by Brutus_\*\*
> Oh, I’ll grant that we have serious intelligence problems. \*\*
Oh, I think GW, Rummy, Wolfie, _et al_ are intelligent enough. They just lack common sense.
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### Author:  [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/19 "2003-09-25T11:49:23Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Brutus \*
> \*\* The Bush Admistration should have long ago abolished the CIA, and replaced it with something with teeth, along the lines of the Mossad, or British Intelligence. \*\*
Maybe we just shoudl’ve skipped the [Office of Special Plans](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=199309)?
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2003, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-from-survey-team-in-iraq-says-no-trace-of-wmds-have-been-found/203669/20 "2003-09-25T12:01:37Z")
How the hell can we give it back to Saddam? We can’t find _him_ either!
See you at **Scylla’s** for Thanksgiving, **Minty**! Can you bring a case or two of Shiner’s Bock?
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