# Report: Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2011, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014 "2011-04-28T11:02:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/21 "2011-04-28T13:37:05Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Your gun increases the danger that others around you will be injured or killed, and the major reason for gun control should be to minimise that risk. If you are really worried about risks the average citizen presents to the general population you should probably take up a campaign against drunk driving or something that actually gets a lot of people killed every year. You know - go after the low-hanging fruit first. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/22 "2011-04-28T13:37:13Z")
Guns are just a force multiplier for stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/23 "2011-04-28T13:38:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Guns are just a force multiplier for stupidity. They _can_ be. They aren’t _always_. Problem with guns is that the risk is often fatal. That’s not an acceptable risk for _me_ and _my family_ but it can be for others. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/24 "2011-04-28T13:47:57Z")
It’s hard to take a study like this seriously, when they don’t register the ‘enjoyment upside’ of the guns… only the deterrent value against bad guys. What’s the value of your flat screen TV? What’s the value of the ice cream in your fridge? A study with a similar methodology would have mostly downsides, aside from the educational value of a few shows and the protein content in the milk. I understand that those upsides are completely subjective and therefore unmeasurable in a study like this - which just proves that studies like this are foolish ways to form public policy. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/25 "2011-04-28T13:49:15Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Anyone still want to argue that you’re better of having a gun in the house? > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > You’re new here, aren’t you. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Join Date: Feb 2006 It was a joke, Spock. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/26 "2011-04-28T13:49:28Z")
How was the credibility of the evidence of a deterrent effect of firearms determined? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/27 "2011-04-28T13:51:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Your gun increases the danger that others around you will be injured or killed, and the major reason for gun control should be to minimise that risk. Your bucket increases the risk a [toddler will die](http://www.google.com/search?q=toddler+drowns+in+bucket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=). Your swimming pool increases the risk that [a child will die](http://www.google.com/search?q=toddler+drowns+in+bucket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=#hl=en&sugexp=gsish&pq=toddler%20drowns%20in%20bucket&xhr=t&q=child+drowns+in+pool&cp=17&qe=Y2hpbGQgZHJvd25zIGluIHA&qesig=lp2j6rv0OeZdFucZ9XlTsQ&pkc=AFgZ2tkAqjFkZq0CZzDZumA4Fkk66OxS7H0L7zESRNOgV5fB3oure_yn_rXx7EnXa88XpVKDEezVlEsz6xsNT5JM3EZHH_erHw&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=active&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=&aql=f&oq=child+drowns+in+p&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=40d12f84dda1c17c). Your car increases the risk that [a child will be killed](http://www.google.com/search?q=toddler+drowns+in+bucket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=active&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&source=hp&q=child%20killed%20by%20car&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=40d12f84dda1c17c&pf=p&pdl=3000&safe=on). Your pack of matches increases the risk that [a child will be burned to death](http://www.google.com/search?q=toddler+drowns+in+bucket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=active&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&source=hp&q=child%20playing%20with%20matches&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=40d12f84dda1c17c&pf=p&pdl=3000&safe=on). What about [bicycles?](http://www.google.com/search?q=toddler+drowns+in+bucket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=active&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&source=hp&q=child+killed+bicycle&aq=0v&aqi=g-v1&aql=f&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=40d12f84dda1c17c) [Baseball](http://www.google.com/search?q=toddler+drowns+in+bucket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=active&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&source=hp&q=child+killed+baseball&aq=&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=40d12f84dda1c17c)seems pretty high risk, too. So, why is it again that you are pissing down your leg over guns? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/28 "2011-04-28T13:52:55Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > What about Spain? There is a much higher proportion of Hispanics in Spain. Does that give them a much higher crime rate? > > It’s awfully simplistic to bring race into it. In the US, as in many other countries, race is a marker for social and economic differences, and they are much more important in explaining crime rates. According to the Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention) the murder rate in Spain is 0.0122456 per 1,000 people. In the United States it is 0.042802 per 1,000 people. In Mexico it is 0.130213 per 1,000 people. > **[Countries Compared by Crime \> Murders \> Per capita. International...](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Murders/Per-capita)** > > Number of convictions for intentional homicides in the given year. Per capita figures expressed per 1 million population. In Mexico the per capita gross domestic product is $13,800. In India it is $3,400. [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html?countryName=Mexico&countryCode=mx®ionCode=na&rank=84#mx](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html?countryName=Mexico&countryCode=mx®ionCode=na&rank=84#mx) Nevertheless, In India the murder rate is 0.0344083 per 1,000 people, which makes it lower than in the United States. India has a tradition of urban civilization that is 4,000 years old. Agriculture goes back several thousand years further. According to The 10,000 Year Explosion, the longer a population has practiced agriculture and urban living the lower its crime rate is likely to be. This is because the criminal justice system of a civilized nation gradually removes those with criminal proclivities from the gene pool. > **[The 10,000 Year Explosion - a book review](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=605733)** > > In The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending argue just that: human evolution is advancing faster and faster. Cochran and Harpending are anthropology professors at the University of... The Hispanics in Mexico and the United States are a hybrid race composed of Spaniards, American Indians, and Negroes. American Indians and Negroes usually have higher crime rates than whites because they are closer in numbers of generations to the paleolithic era. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/29 "2011-04-28T13:54:45Z")
Maybe we should also outlaw skydiving. Those those people run a really high risk of killing themselves and innocents on the ground as well. Heck, even the airplanes they fly in are fundamentally unsafe, simply by virtue or their defiance of the law of gravity. Yes - air travel itself is inherently risky. Stand by while I go make up a new list of all the risky things I don’t like and therefore believe others should be prohibited from as well. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/30 "2011-04-28T13:55:18Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Your bucket increases the risk a [toddler will die](http://www.google.com/search?q=toddler+drowns+in+bucket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=). > Your swimming pool increases the risk that [a child will die](http://www.google.com/search?q=toddler+drowns+in+bucket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=#hl=en&sugexp=gsish&pq=toddler%20drowns%20in%20bucket&xhr=t&q=child+drowns+in+pool&cp=17&qe=Y2hpbGQgZHJvd25zIGluIHA&qesig=lp2j6rv0OeZdFucZ9XlTsQ&pkc=AFgZ2tkAqjFkZq0CZzDZumA4Fkk66OxS7H0L7zESRNOgV5fB3oure_yn_rXx7EnXa88XpVKDEezVlEsz6xsNT5JM3EZHH_erHw&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=active&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=&aql=f&oq=child+drowns+in+p&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=40d12f84dda1c17c). > Your car increases the risk that [a child will be killed](http://www.google.com/search?q=toddler+drowns+in+bucket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=active&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&source=hp&q=child%20killed%20by%20car&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=40d12f84dda1c17c&pf=p&pdl=3000&safe=on). > Your pack of matches increases the risk that [a child will be burned to death](http://www.google.com/search?q=toddler+drowns+in+bucket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=active&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&source=hp&q=child%20playing%20with%20matches&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=40d12f84dda1c17c&pf=p&pdl=3000&safe=on). > What about [bicycles?](http://www.google.com/search?q=toddler+drowns+in+bucket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=active&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&source=hp&q=child+killed+bicycle&aq=0v&aqi=g-v1&aql=f&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=40d12f84dda1c17c) > [Baseball](http://www.google.com/search?q=toddler+drowns+in+bucket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=active&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&source=hp&q=child+killed+baseball&aq=&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=40d12f84dda1c17c)seems pretty high risk, too. > > So, why is it again that you are pissing down your leg over guns? I’m not pissing down my leg over anything at the moment, fortunately. However, some of those dangerous things do get regulated. For example, people are required to put child-proof fences around swimming pools, and are required to be licensed to drive cars and follow various rules to avoid injuring and killing others. Why shouldn’t guns be treated the same way? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/31 "2011-04-28T13:55:49Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > American Indians and Negroes usually have higher crime rates than whites because they are closer in numbers of generations to the paleolithic era. Then we should be encouraging more teen pregnancy to hasten the evolutionary process. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/32 "2011-04-28T14:00:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Then we should be encouraging more teen pregnancy to hasten the evolutionary process. That was of course meant in jest. Nevertheless, single mothers are more likely to raise violent street criminals because they are less able to control adolescent boys than a man would be. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/33 "2011-04-28T14:02:32Z")
I’ve got no gun in this fight (:p), but … is the survey a study of all guns in homes, or is it restricted to people who have guns particularly for protection? Seems to me that a large number of gun-owners have 'em for hunting, sport and the like - they may never intend to use them to deter crime, and in fact, they may be locked up or otherwise located so that they can’t be of any practical use to deter crime. Doesn’t seem fair to include such ownership in the overall risk/benefit balance. The real issue, seems to me, is ‘if you get a gun specifically to protect yourself/family, will it on average do you more potential harm than good’? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/34 "2011-04-28T14:06:44Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > What’s the value of your flat screen TV? What’s the value of the ice cream in your fridge? A study with a similar methodology would have mostly downsides, aside from the educational value of a few shows and the protein content in the milk. I’m not aware of anyone ever dying from an accidental Haägen Dasz discharge. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/35 "2011-04-28T14:11:14Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > That was of course meant in jest. So will you be providing clues in the future that we may tell which of your racist statements are serious and which are in jest, because up to now they’ve been rather indistinguishable. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/36 "2011-04-28T14:11:54Z")
A home with stairs in it is more of a health risk than a no-basement ranch style home. Who’s afraid of falling down the stairs? The only difference between stairs and guns in the home is that some sniveling weasels are _afraid_ of guns for some irrational reason and therefore believe a crusade against them is called for. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/37 "2011-04-28T14:12:40Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I’m not pissing down my leg over anything at the moment, fortunately. However, some of those dangerous things do get regulated. For example, people are required to put child-proof fences around swimming pools, and are required to be licensed to drive cars and follow various rules to avoid injuring and killing others. Why shouldn’t guns be treated the same way? Let’s see…If you are a convicted felon, dishonorably discharged from the military, adjudicated mentally ill, or have a restraining order against you, you cannot buy or possess a gun. You can’t buy a long gun until you are 18 or a handgun until you are 21. In most states, legally carrying a handgun requires one to obtain a permit that involves a background check and, in some states, completion of a training program. Some states don’t permit CCW at all or leave it at the discretion of LE who simply choose not to issue any permits. The states vary in what firearms they figure it is okay for their people to own and how frequently they may purchase. Some, like NJ, are really quite restrictive. If you live in NYC, Chicago, and some other metropolitan areas, it may effectively be impossible for you own a gun at all. What additional restrictions do you figure we need and what do you see them accomplishing? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/38 "2011-04-28T14:20:54Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So will you be providing clues in the future that we may tell which of your racist statements are serious and which are in jest, because up to now they’ve been rather indistinguishable. The word “racist” should be banned from an intelligent discussion of serious issues because it inhibits the discussion. What matters is not whether a statement is racist, but whether it is true. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/39 "2011-04-28T14:22:16Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > What additional restrictions do you figure we need and what do you see them accomplishing? How about, if there are young children in the home, requiring that the guns be kept secured so that the children cannot get to the guns or to the ammunition? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/40 "2011-04-28T14:23:04Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > How about, if there are young children in the home, requiring that the guns be kept secured so that the children cannot get to the guns or to the ammunition? How do you plan on verifying that this is done? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014.md?page=3)