# Report: Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2011, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014 "2011-04-28T11:02:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/81 "2011-04-28T16:47:52Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Yes, the figure for vehicle deaths is too high, and probably could be reduced, e.g., by stricter enforcement of laws against DUI, including random testing of drivers. The fact is that driving is safer today than ever, based on deaths and accidents per miles driven. DUI rates are way down, partially from police action, partially from social pressure. Seat belt use is high, and the cars themselves are much safer. Except for the few “seatbelts infringe my personal freedom” people, AAA does not oppose laws on DUI or licensing. An NRA for drivers would support leaving the keys in the ignition, because think of the cases where some poor woman has to get away from a bad guy and needs to move fast. Kids joyriding are unfortunate, but they should know better. In any case, the NRA for cars would sponsor classes telling kids not to drive, and that should be plenty good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/82 "2011-04-28T16:50:38Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > If you don’t like them don’t own them. Pretty simple - what’s the big deal? > > Personally, I think guns are fun. I enjoy target shooting and collecting them. I’ll take the risk. Shooting pistol at a range is fun. You could keep your pistol there. Collecting is fine also - if the guns in your collection cannot be fired, you’re golden. But it appears that these aren’t your only reasons, are they? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/83 "2011-04-28T16:50:57Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Where I live a new pool (or even spa) needs to be inspected, and there must be a fence or locked cover. That is a far more rigorous rule than there is for storing guns. Plus, pool owners don’t have a fit about this, unlike gun owners. That well’s been poisoned long ago. I’d need some pretty solid guarantees that any registry of firearms would not be used for seizures and that the evaluation of my gun storage systems would be absolutely apolitical/unbiased before I’d want to see a law passed mandating such. Mind you, I WOULD like to see a law passed mandating safe storage of firearms and registries of serial numbers, I am just not convinced appropriate guarantees of my second amendment rights would be offered in today’s political climate. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/84 "2011-04-28T16:54:02Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Where I live a new pool (or even spa) needs to be inspected, and there must be a fence or locked cover. That is a far more rigorous rule than there is for storing guns. Plus, pool owners don’t have a fit about this, unlike gun owners. I would hazard a guess that owners did put up a bit of a stink, but with pools they lack the “constitutional” leg to protest on. I’ve lived in areas where the fence requirement was put in after the fact and people freaked out. It’s a huge cost to put up the required fence, and just like this debate people presented all sorts of data showing pools just aren’t that dangerous–if people raise their kids properly. And once in place I knew a lot of people that said putting in a pool now wasn’t worth the trouble. Saving a few kids meant a lot of other kids went without the joys of pool ownership and the life experience gained from skimming off the leaves every freakin day and fishing rats out of the filter. Those kinds of things build character, kids need character. You’ll also find that the increased regulation increased the cost of pools. So I’m sure pool installers were unhappy, but fence installers were overjoyed. Is it possible the politicians were in the pocket of the fence industry??? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/85 "2011-04-28T16:56:50Z")
As soon as firearms permit has the connotation of “Billy-Bob can have all the guns he wants because we know he’s not going to do anything stupid with them” instead of the “we’re keeping a close eye on you” implication we have now, most of the opposition to registration will evaporate. Probably. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/86 "2011-04-28T16:57:16Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Shooting pistol at a range is fun. You could keep your pistol there. Collecting is fine also - if the guns in your collection cannot be fired, you’re golden. > > But it appears that these aren’t your only reasons, are they? What if you shoot on your own (like me) or a friends property? Or National Forest for that matter. What if you are a competitive shooter and shoot at different ranges? The only range that exists in the county I live, doesn’t even have a building on it let alone the ability to store guns there. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/87 "2011-04-28T17:10:10Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Yes, the figure for vehicle deaths is too high, and probably could be reduced, e.g., by stricter enforcement of laws against DUI, including random testing of drivers. > > It looks like the figure for firearm deaths does not include intentional killing with firearms. To be fair, they should be included. Intentional killing with motor vehicles is probably pretty small, and probably included with the accidental deaths anyway. > > In addition, you should always be balancing usefulness against dangers. Almost everyone in the U.S. needs to travel in a motor vehicle almost every day. How many really need to use firearms on a daily basis? Accidental only, since that’s really the discussion at hand. As for usefulness vs dangers, that’s why I posted about TVs, ice cream - how useful are they, vs what they cost society? The point is, which so many here miss, is that freedom gives people choices to act in ways that seem to some people as unnecessarily risky, self-destructive even. PS Off topic but I wonder if the White House flags are at [half mast](http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/04/26/teleprompter_inventor_dies.html)… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/88 "2011-04-28T17:18:10Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Accidental only, since that’s really the discussion at hand. > > As for usefulness vs dangers, that’s why I posted about TVs, ice cream - how useful are they, vs what they cost society? The point is, which so many here miss, is that freedom gives people choices to act in ways that seem to some people as unnecessarily risky, self-destructive even. > > PS Off topic but I wonder if the White House flags are at [half mast](http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/04/26/teleprompter_inventor_dies.html)… Including accidental deaths only skews the numbers in your favor. The reason for gun control is to limit the number of guns available for crimes. Criminals largely get their guns either from traditional channels or steal them from people who got them from traditional channels. If some yokel has 50 guns in his house and the local tweaker steals them, those guns aren’t being used for home defense or target shooting any more. That said, I like the puerile and completely nonsensical partisan dig at the end of your post. Obama speaks better without a teleprompter than Bush did with one. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/89 "2011-04-28T17:18:52Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > PS Off topic but I wonder if the White House flags are at [half mast](http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/04/26/teleprompter_inventor_dies.html)… If that topic is that interesting to you, start a new thread rather than potentially hijacking this one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/90 "2011-04-28T18:45:34Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > A home with stairs in it is more of a health risk than a no-basement ranch style home. Who’s afraid of falling down the stairs? The only difference between stairs and guns in the home is that some sniveling weasels are _afraid_ of guns for some irrational reason and therefore believe a crusade against them is called for. How many people who use stairwells are killed on them every year? How many people who are shot at die every year? When you can answer those questions maybe you’ll understand why arguments along the lines of “pools/cars/stairs are dangerous too!” are nonsensical. As you can see, there’s another difference between the two arguments besides the fact you choose to insult people making one of them. Personally I don’t care if you Americans kill yourselves off, and I’m fine with Canada’s possession laws as they are because I don’t live in fear or view guns as security blankets or some other symbol. I know nothing of this snivelling of which you speak. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/91 "2011-04-28T19:00:18Z")
So are you denying that a home with stairs is more dangerous than one without? Did anyone check to see if the study counted people who where only slightly wounded or just scared when the gun went off? Curious, these pesky little details… ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/92 "2011-04-28T19:03:39Z")
According to this website, [http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor\_fal\_on\_and\_fro\_sta\_and\_ste-mortality-fall-stairs-steps](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_fal_on_and_fro_sta_and_ste-mortality-fall-stairs-steps) [http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor\_ass\_by\_han\_dis-mortality-assault-by-handgun-discharge](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_ass_by_han_dis-mortality-assault-by-handgun-discharge) stairwell falls killed 1,307 people in the US as opposed to 1,068 by handgun assault. It doesn’t seem to have a page for accidental handgun discharge, just assault, which pretty much covers the “people who are shot at” group. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/93 "2011-04-28T19:06:47Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > According to this website, [http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor\_fal\_on\_and\_fro\_sta\_and\_ste-mortality-fall-stairs-steps](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_fal_on_and_fro_sta_and_ste-mortality-fall-stairs-steps) > [http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor\_ass\_by\_han\_dis-mortality-assault-by-handgun-discharge](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_ass_by_han_dis-mortality-assault-by-handgun-discharge) > stairwell falls killed 1,307 people in the US as opposed to 1,068 by handgun assault. > > It doesn’t seem to have a page for accidental handgun discharge, just assault, which pretty much covers the “people who are shot at” group. Where I live stairs must be built to code, and are required to have suitable railing. I don’t remember people bitching when those laws were put into place. Obviously what we need is a requirement that stairs have gates at the top and bottom to protect our precious little children. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/94 "2011-04-28T19:11:34Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > The problems with guns in a home almost always revolves around one or a combination of stupid/irresponsible gun ownership, children and/or alcohol abuse. > > I am a responsible gun owner. I used to own a handgun and a shotgun, then I had kids. The guns were sold. I will probably own guns again once my boys are out of the house, but I refuse to have them in the house when they are so young (9 and 5) because no matter how much respect and training I could possibly give them, they are still children. Sweet jumping jebus, my brother and I both learned to shoot when we were 8 years old, and had a deep respect for guns because we saw what they did to targets. We had arranged target shooting time on the range over at the boy scout camp in Pike [my dad after retiring from the army taught range skills there as well as we had a small handgun range laid out at the summer house [properly designed, very tall berms surrounding it, and nothing but about 100 acres of pasture and woods backing it up with nobody living in that direction for about 3 miles.] And for what it is worth, female gun owner married to a retired military gun owner, retired hunter, husband still hunts. You will get my handgun when you pry it out of my gimpy cold dead body’s hands. I target shoot monthly to remain proficient and believe that gun control means training to use, clean and control use of the gun. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/95 "2011-04-28T19:13:55Z")
Oops, sorry. If I include the “Rifle, shotgun and larger firearms” figures [http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor\_ass\_by\_rif\_sho\_and\_lar\_fir\_dis-rifle-shotgun-larger-firearm-discharge](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_ass_by_rif_sho_and_lar_fir_dis-rifle-shotgun-larger-firearm-discharge) of 694 then shooting beats stairwell falls as a cause of mortality in the US by about 300 persons, which is (I believe) about ten days worth of motor vehicle accidents. Good thing I never mentioned stariwells in my arguments, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/96 "2011-04-28T19:42:24Z")
[Here is a 200 post thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=569344) that emackight and I participated in regarding deterrence and home invasion. In it the idea of Defensive Gun Uses (DGUs) was explored. The conclusion was that the quantity of DGUs was at least a hundred thousand and likely several hundred thousand times per year. Many of these were outside the home of course, but that strengthens the argument for being armed outside the home as well. It’s interesting also because DragonAsh participated in that thread as well, so I’m not sure what new information has come to his attention that suddenly this is an “a ha!” moment. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/97 "2011-04-28T19:56:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Because the point of guns is supposedly that they make a home safer, while the point of a bucket is not that it makes a home safer. > > **Now, if you keep guns for recreational purposes, this doesn’t apply to you** - but most of the gun owners I know keep them for self-defense. Bolding added by me. A firearm is not necessarily an either/or proposition. I don’t own firearms for any self or home defense purpose; I’m strictly about recreational/target shooting. That doesn’t preclude me from using any one of my firearms for home/self defense at some point. But that’s not my primary (or secondary, or even tertiary) reason for having them. Regardless of any particular firearm’s “purpose” (in the mind of its owner), any firearm handled or stored carelessly is a liability. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/98 "2011-04-28T20:11:28Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Oops, sorry. If I include the “Rifle, shotgun and larger firearms” figures I just want to know how many in the “larger” category, exactly what weapon(s) we’re talking about, and how much red tape I need to get through in order to get one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/99 "2011-04-28T20:18:57Z")
Tom Tomorrow sums up my feeling on the subject nicely: [http://www.salon.com/entertainment/comics/this\_modern\_world/2011/01/10/this\_modern\_world](http://www.salon.com/entertainment/comics/this_modern_world/2011/01/10/this_modern_world) TLDR: Guns suck, but this country was founded in part on the principle of private gun ownership and too many people love them (for reasons I have yet to & probably never will grok) for anything to ever change that. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014/100 "2011-04-28T20:24:29Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > Tom Tomorrow sums up my feeling on the subject nicely: [http://www.salon.com/entertainment/comics/this\_modern\_world/2011/01/10/this\_modern\_world](http://www.salon.com/entertainment/comics/this_modern_world/2011/01/10/this_modern_world) Ha, I actually thought after the first panel that this was going to be mocking gun control advocates. The way the guy is saying “you’re going to exploit this” and then the penguin makes an appeal to emotion about how one of the victims was a 9 year old girl. But no, the writer was apparently did not intend that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-guns-in-the-home-provide-greater-health-risk-than-benefit/580014.md?page=6)