# report on Carlos **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [June 28, 2002, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351 "2002-06-28T09:22:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![curwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@curwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curwin)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/1 "2002-06-28T09:22:20Z")
**bibliophage** : In this [report](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcarlos.html) you had one factual error: > [@](#): > > He and his wife moved to Damascus, but Syria forced him to give up terrorism after the 1986 bombing of Pan Am flight 103. The Pan Am 103 bombing was in December 1988. You also wrote: > [@](#): > > During and after the Gulf War, in which Syria fought on our side, While I’m guessing you’re American, the phrase “our side” sounds a little strange. Although I am sure almost all of the readers of the report were against Iraq in the Gulf War. Otherwise, nice report. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/2 "2002-07-02T06:25:28Z")
Given that the Straight Dope is published by an American newspaper (the Chicago Reader), and this website is hosted by that American newspaper, and the Gulf War was essentially _everyone_ against Iraq, I think that wording is sufficient. I just loved this part: “The authorities maintained the fiction that Carlos had drugged and handcuffed himself, tied himself in the sack, and boarded the plane of his own free will.” Oh my! ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/3 "2002-07-02T13:11:03Z")
Thanks for the correction, **curwin**. I was trying to go by memory, which is usually a mistake in my case. I meant to look up the date to make sure, but I, um, forgot. It has been fixed. As for the “our side” thing: Well, I figured our side was the side that wasn’t the side of the megalomaniacal tyrant. Oh, wait. What I mean is, our side was the side that wasn’t the side of the _Iraqi_ megalomaniacal tyrant. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/4 "2002-07-02T14:31:17Z")
I started a Pit thread a while back (that I guess was lost in the board changeover) about the fact that Isabelle Coutant-Peyre was representing Zacarias Moussaoui against the charges stemming from the Sept. 11th attacks. That was until recenty, when he fired her and asked the court for a new lawyer and stating that he was “pray(ing) for the destruction of the United States of America”. Keep in mind her defense of Carlos the Jackal’s killing of a pregnant woman from the grenade attack had nothing to do with his innocence- she wanted him found not guilty because a) his extradition from Sudan was illegal, and b) it was an “act of war” and therefore not prosecutable in court. ---
**Author:** ![Flyfisher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e480ec/32.png) [@Flyfisher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyfisher)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/5 "2002-07-02T15:39:29Z")
Though they don’t have “Broadway Shows” in France, based on Carlos’ “experience” it would seem he would be perfect for the leading role in “Rope Dance”. ---
**Author:** ![gsteinma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/77aa72/32.png) [@gsteinma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gsteinma)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/6 "2002-07-02T17:04:52Z")
So what happened to these old terrorist organizations mentioned (the PFLP, the Japanese Red Army, Black September)? Did they just fade away? Do they still operate at some level? Did they get renamed? Has security improved to the point that they can’t operate with impunity as in the good old 60’s and 70’s? Do I need to watch my back? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/7 "2002-07-02T21:09:52Z")
I’d say bibliophage is bucking to be Cecil. He manages in the first paragraph to mock the questioner’s taste in movies. Then there’s this little attempt at wit: > [@](#): > > It’s an accident of history that he didn’t become known to the public under one of his many other false identities, such as “Bernard Muller.” (Somehow “Bernie the Jackal” doesn’t sound quite as fearsome.) Of course, he wouldn’t have been called “Bernie” by the press, & “Bernard the Jackal” does sound rather sinister. Cool, in fact. Still, in all, an informative report. I must go find those who misled me into believing Carlos the Jackal was an international communist, rather than an Arabist. Heads will roll. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2002, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/8 "2002-07-02T21:53:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gsteinma \* > \*\*So what happened to these old terrorist organizations mentioned (the PFLP, the Japanese Red Army, Black September)? Did they just fade away? Do they still operate at some level? Did they get renamed? Has security improved to the point that they can’t operate with impunity as in the good old 60’s and 70’s? Do I need to watch my back? \*\* It’s hard to keep track of these terrorist groups, because they have a tendency to splinter into competing factions, or to have many several different names. The PFLP is still around, claiming responsibility for several recent suicide bomgings in Israel, and the assassination of at least one Israeli cabinet ministerl. [http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/pflp.htm](http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/pflp.htm) The Japanese Red Army: [http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/jra.htm](http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/jra.htm) Black September: [http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ano.htm](http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ano.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Groucho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c77e96/32.png) [@Groucho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Groucho)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2002, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/9 "2002-07-03T03:01:12Z")
On the subject of poor Carlos’s abduction by the French, the US authorities have also applied this method of bringing evildoers within our boundaries to face our judicial wrath. On April 2, 1990, Humberto Alvarez Machain was forcibly kidnapped from his medical office in Guadalajara, Mexico, to be flown by private plane to El Paso, Texas, where he was arrested by DEA officials for his part in the kidnap, torture, and murder of United States DEA special agent Enrique Camarena Salazar and a Mexican pilot working with Camarena, Alfredo Zavala Avelar. Reviewing this, the US Supreme Court said: “The power of a court to try a person for crime is not impaired by the fact that he had been brought within the court’s jurisdiction by reason of a `forcible abduction.’ There is nothing in the Constitution that requires a court to permit a guilty person rightfully convicted to escape justice because he was brought to trial against his will.” United States v Alvarez Machain, 504 U.S. 655 (1992). [http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-712.ZO.html](http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-712.ZO.html) ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2002, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/10 "2002-07-05T10:14:45Z")
According to the book "by way of decpption " by victor otrosky a former mossad agent : The french killing of markhabel was done becuase he was discovered as a mossad source being paid for information as part of a operation In fact the whole thing was watched by a mossad agent who sent the cops in to get their guy out and arrest soemone else but carlos was sent in for the hit The mossads anylasis seemed to be he was a bumbling amature who happened ot get lucky once or twice , Their version of how carlos was during a attack he shot someone several times shouting " I am carlos " repeadetly Theres a lot of info on the mossad and isreali intelligence in the book althouhg since it was written in the late 80s most of its past history but it does provide insight on the problems there having today also … ---
**Author:** ![kdeustachio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/87869e/32.png) [@kdeustachio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kdeustachio)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2002, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/11 "2002-07-05T16:55:54Z")
The law is so full of (now) meaningless latin terms and linguistic overkill it was refreshing to hear my Civil Proceedure prof describing the “BGIC extradition” used to bring Manchain (and apparently Carlos) to justice: “BGIC”. Binding, Gagging and Carrying away. BTW, (and I don’t recall if Manchain is the case) at least the French had the cooperation of the Syrians. When the US went into Mexico, we did so without the knowledge of the Mexicans. Sneaking into a country, grabbing someone and spiriting them away falls somewhere between kidnapping and war. kdeus ---
**Author:** ![kdeustachio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/87869e/32.png) [@kdeustachio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kdeustachio)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2002, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/12 "2002-07-05T16:58:40Z")
BG **A** C warning: preview is not a 100% bar to stupidity kdeus ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Kahuna_Burger)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/13 "2002-07-10T05:49:39Z")
[Crimelibrary.com](http://www.crimelibrary.com/terrorists/carlos/text/index.htm) has a great chronology of Carlos’s life and career and investigates many of the rumors about him (allegations with Russia, Saddam, etc.). I’ve actually read this a few times, it doesn’t get old. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/14 "2017-02-08T19:54:34Z")
Bumped because the 2002 column is back on the front page. Carlos remains in French custody: [Carlos the Jackal - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_the_Jackal) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/15 "2017-02-08T20:05:12Z")
I’ve seen commentary on Carlos that indicate he was nowhere near as crafty, intelligent or effective as too many spy thrillers have made him out to be… even something of a coward, sneaking out a side door while troops busted everyone else in the place. Has anyone ever reliably sorted out the BS and PR from reality? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/16 "2017-02-09T02:06:58Z")
Really enjoyed this staff report. Informative, entertaining, and well written. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/report-on-carlos/116351/17 "2017-02-09T02:31:50Z")
> [@Groucho](#): > > On the subject of poor Carlos’s abduction by the French, the US authorities have also applied this method of bringing evildoers within our boundaries to face our judicial wrath. > > On April 2, 1990, Humberto Alvarez Machain was forcibly kidnapped from his medical office in Guadalajara, Mexico, to be flown by private plane to El Paso, Texas, where he was arrested by DEA officials for his part in the kidnap, torture, and murder of United States DEA special agent Enrique Camarena Salazar and a Mexican pilot working with Camarena, Alfredo Zavala Avelar. > > Reviewing this, the US Supreme Court said: > > “The power of a court to try a person for crime is not impaired by the fact that he had been brought within the court’s jurisdiction by reason of a `forcible abduction.’ There is nothing in the Constitution that requires a court to permit a guilty person rightfully convicted to escape justice because he was brought to trial against his will.” > > United States v Alvarez Machain, 504 U.S. 655 (1992). > [United States v. Alvarez-Machain, 504 U.S. 655 (1992).](http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-712.ZO.html) He was then acquitted in 1992 and won $25k as damages from his kidnappers. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > … even something of a coward, sneaking out a side door while troops busted everyone else in the place. Seems like common sense.