# Reporter shooting in Virginia **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 26, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942 "2015-08-26T13:30:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/201 "2015-08-29T23:44:14Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Vertical axis, homicide rate. Horizontal axis, prevalence of guns: > > [Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life](https://www.dropbox.com/s/no9ocpf4fa049ph/gunsvhomicide.png?dl=0) Where did this graph come from? And what are the units? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/202 "2015-08-30T00:25:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s just it, the point is that guns don’t kill people. If you remove the gun from picture the intent allows other tools to be used. In this instance he could have stabbed the reporter and photographer with a knife or driven over both of them with a car. It’s the person who commits murder and not the gun. Well hell, why not let people have bazookas then, or nuclear bombs? After all, it’s not the weapons that kill people. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/203 "2015-08-30T00:26:23Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > If it’s just as easy to kill someone with a gun as without a gun, that’s a pretty poorly designed gun, isn’t it? LOL, this. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/204 "2015-08-30T01:00:49Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Where did this graph come from? And what are the units? From the numbers in the graph, I think it came from [Estimated number of civilian guns per capita by country - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country) and [List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) . Well, roughly, because in the second link the US is at 4.5 and on the graph it is shown around 5. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/205 "2015-08-30T01:09:22Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Fair point, well made. OK then, the 2010 homicide rate for the richest and most advanced large first-world country was still higher than that of Yemen. Cherrypicking much? Now obviously, the line drawn is a very rough approximation of the relationship. Cultural differences, laws, and other variables certainly add noise, but of all of the graphs I’ve ever seen or made, this is one where it’s pretty hard to deny that there is a correlation and what direction the correlation runs. In your hypothesis, the correlation would be a line like y = x. That’s hypothesis is clearly busted. Now you could say that comparing some of these countries is silly; putting Russia and Colombia on the same chart as modern Western nations isn’t comparing apples to apples. And I’ve graphed that. Any relationship goes away or, if there is any, the data set is too small to pull it out from the noise. The best guess line could change to any direction with the addition or removal of any one country. Don’t believe me? Graph it. Why are all the countries with high homicide rates also low gun ownership? Well, at a guess, because tyrannical governments don’t want people to have guns, but they also tend to create fairly lawless states where people kill each other a lot. So the correlation is probably not causative. The graph is, to some extent, misleading. But one thing that I will grant is that “gun homicides” may be more prevalent in places where guns are widely available ([though that doesn’t seem to be very tightly correlated](https://www.dropbox.com/s/rztln0dvbg2tfwn/gunsvgundeath.png?dl=0)), but I’ll give it to you. But I give it to you because it’s stupid. When murdered, I don’t really care what you murdered me with, I just care that _you murdered me_. “Gun homicides” is just a stupid metric. Unless there’s a positive, causative correlation between gun prevalence and straight up murder, you’re just playing semantics. And if you want to complain that the US has a lot of crime, let me point out that we enslaved and oppressed whole swathes of the population for a few hundred years. You see where South Africa is? Well maybe that’s the difference between starting on the path towards justice 150 years ago versus 20 years ago. Switzerland has nine times the number of guns floating around their streets as the UK and a lower homicide rate. **Nine times the number of guns.** You’re telling me that nine times more guns wouldn’t affect the homicide rate, assuming that guns make people kill people, but then eighteen times does? No. Maybe there’s something other than our history of slavery that drives up America’s homicide rate, but it certainly isn’t the availability of guns. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/206 "2015-08-30T01:12:06Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Where did this graph come from? And what are the units? I graphed it, a few years ago, based on the numbers on the Wikipedia pages: > **[Estimated number of civilian guns per capita by country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country)** > > This is a list of countries by estimated number of privately owned guns per 100 people. The Small Arms Survey 2017 provides estimates of the total number of civilian-owned guns in a country. It then calculates the number per 100 people. This number for a country does not indicate the percentage of the population that owns guns. This is because individuals can own more than one gun. > See also: Percent of households with guns by country. It gives the percent of households with guns. It is furthe... > **[List of countries by intentional homicide rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate)** > > The list of countries by homicide rate is derived from United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) data, and is expressed in number of deaths per 100,000 population per year. For example, a homicide rate of 30 out of 100,000 is presented in the table as "30", and corresponds to 0.03% of the population dying by homicide. The reliability of underlying national murder rate data may vary. Only UNODC-vetted data is used in the main table to maintain consistency. In some cases, Homicide rates ma... I doubt that the numbers are still the same but the units appear to line up still, so it’s # of guns per 100 population and number of intentional homicides per 100k population. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/207 "2015-08-30T01:13:02Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Well hell, why not let people have bazookas then, or nuclear bombs? After all, it’s not the weapons that kill people. I have met people IRL who argue in total sincerity that the right should extend to any weapon a single soldier can carry. Machine guns, flamethrowers, grenade launchers. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/208 "2015-08-30T01:27:27Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I have met people IRL who argue in total sincerity that the right should extend to any weapon a single soldier can carry. Machine guns, flamethrowers, grenade launchers. You do realize that flamethrowers are legal to own in the US by federal law, and by most state laws, and you don’t need a license for them? And yet - no disasters… So are grenade launchers. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/209 "2015-08-30T01:51:20Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I have met people IRL who argue in total sincerity that the right should extend to any weapon a single soldier can carry. Machine guns, flamethrowers, grenade launchers. Sadly, so have I. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/210 "2015-08-30T01:52:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > because it’s easy to drive down a road. The skill set doesn’t change if people are standing on it. Kids are usually on the sidewalk waiting for a bus, not on the road, and if a car came at them they would scatter. I think you would really need to practice a few times to know for certain. And surely this obviates the argument that guns are necessary for self defense. If someone came at you with a gun, all you would have to do would run them down with your car.😉 ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/211 "2015-08-30T01:57:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You do realize that flamethrowers are legal to own in the US by federal law, and by most state laws, and you don’t need a license for them? And yet - no disasters… > > So are grenade launchers. And the grenades they launch? If true, this is insane and just a \*very \*bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/212 "2015-08-30T01:59:56Z")
OK, all y’all have convinced me. All Americans will be safer if they pack a GAU 19B. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/213 "2015-08-30T02:07:13Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > I haven’t seen anyone else comment on this, and I may get flamed for it but… > > Is anyone else a little bothered by the fact that the dead reporter’s father has seemingly been on television _constantly_ since the very day of the attack? I mean, it’s certainly not unusual for family members to be interviewed in these cases, and I understand that he wants to bring attention to the larger issue of guns, violence, etc. But I would think if your daughter had just been violently murdered, you might want to take a day or two to quietly grieve. But I turn to FOX News (I know, I know) and he’s talking to Megan Kelly. A while later I flip to CNN and he’s talking to Anderson Cooper. Then he makes the round of the broadcast networks. Then back to CNN with Don Lemon, and again later with Wolf Blitzer or Erin Burnett’s fill-in or whomever. He just seems a bit too eager to be in the spotlight. > > Okay, I’m a horrible person for thinking the above about a father who just lost his daughter. But, Dude, get off camera for a couple of days and take care of yourself and your family. Well, yes, I have to agree with your conclusion about yourself. Look, her father can’t save her. What he can do, out of love, grief and respect for his daughter, is work to save others from a similar fate. Who the hell is anyone to disrespect him and the memory of his daughter by expecting him to be quiet about her murder? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/214 "2015-08-30T02:08:49Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Kids are usually on the sidewalk waiting for a bus, not on the road, and if a car came at them they would scatter. Well, a sidewalk. That’s different. Somehow. [Well not really](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3132535/Man-runs-car-crowd-killing-2-injuring-Austria.html). Warning graphic pictures of sheets on objects on sidewalk. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/215 "2015-08-30T02:22:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You do realize that flamethrowers are legal to own in the US by federal law, and by most state laws, and you don’t need a license for them? And yet - no disasters… Our neighbor burns off weeds around a tree with one. I can’t be trusted with one, I have a list of …NM ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/216 "2015-08-30T02:41:43Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Our neighbor burns off weeds around a tree with one. > I can’t be trusted with one, I have a list of …NM So “you’ve got a little list”? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/217 "2015-08-30T02:55:58Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > So “you’ve got a little list”? Well, it’s not really “little”, and it depends upon circumstances…wait, doesn’t \*everyone \*have a list, small, medium or large? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/218 "2015-08-30T02:59:11Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Cherrypicking much? Nope, just looking at what you posted. The land of the free and the home of the brave has a murder rate less than that of Russia, South Africa, Mexico and Colombia, so yay! Well done. Still more than Yemen in 2010 though. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/219 "2015-08-31T13:07:08Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > You’re like a poorly designed robot. :rolleyes: That… Does… Not… Compute. Bwahahahah. As long as you’re committing a robot hijack, do you like Bender from Futurama? p.s. [http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/Bite\_my\_shiny,\_metal\_ass](http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/Bite_my_shiny,_metal_ass)! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942/220 "2015-08-31T13:13:57Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > If it’s just as easy to kill someone with a gun as without a gun, that’s a pretty poorly designed gun, isn’t it? No. It suggests that the person, the human being, the shooter, the monster, the terrorist, the gangbanger, may not be able to operate the inanimate object properly. You may have noticed that inanimate objects are unable to operate on their own. Maybe you haven’t? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reporter-shooting-in-virginia/728942.md?page=12)