# Repost of Iran Topic posted 5-22-11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813 "2011-05-22T21:09:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/21 "2011-05-23T04:09:55Z")
> [@chiefwhitesr](#): > > Indeed something needs to be done and faster than operationally already approved. I would like to come to a direct standoff with Iran. It’s time to talk between us. Would you mind not using euphemisms? If you are advocating direct military action against Iran over this issue, please state what specific form you believe this action should take. In the meantime, this seems a rather flimsy excuse to go all medieval on Iran’s ass and, in the absence of further information, is utterly disproporionate to the issue. The nationalities of the alleged spies arrested is not clear at the moment, but it seems unlikely that any US citizens have been taken into Iranian custody as part of the alleged ring, and even if they were, it’s always been my understanding that them’s the breaks in intelligence operations. Since when do countries go to war over the arrest of their intelligence operatives, especially if they are mainly citizens of the country being spied upon? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/22 "2011-05-23T04:15:28Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > even if they were, it’s always been my understanding that them’s the breaks in intelligence operations. Dad used to say, ‘Them’s the breaks of Naval warfare.’ ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/23 "2011-05-23T04:16:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > For that matter, _we_ sponsor terrorism in _Iran_, we support groups there our own State Department has labeled terrorists. But apparently terrorism is OK if _we_ support it. One person’s terrorist is another person’s freedom fighter? Was Nelson Mandela a terrorist? Was the French Resistance a terrorist organization? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/24 "2011-05-23T04:23:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > One person’s terrorist is another person’s freedom fighter? Was Nelson Mandela a terrorist? Was the French Resistance a terrorist organization? What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/25 "2011-05-23T04:47:22Z")
Oh dear, we have a real live “SEAL”. Wow! :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/26 "2011-05-23T04:48:10Z")
> [@chiefwhitesr](#): > > Apologies first and foremost for excluding source [http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iran-espionage-20110522,0,239266.story](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iran-espionage-20110522,0,239266.story). > > Iran uncovers CIA affiliated ring in Iran, Arrests thirty. > > My former opinion stated that we should mix it up with these guys based on principle of interest concerning state sponsored terrorism… It is no doubt suspected that Iran is a supporter of any group of terrorists that hate the US. Sorry, at this present time I have nothing but insight as an officer to support this. The SEAL in me fears for the retribution that will most certainly come to those captured. One response to my former post asked for cited material. I have none to offer and I have redone my poll to a more subtle and appropriate format versus the yes or no question I asked the first time. I have been in the private intelligence business foe fifteen years and my guts tell me we should move in on them faster than we have previously done. Leon Panetta in June of 2010 I believe it was stated that Iran could possibly have nukes by 2012 and we know from recent CIA and DOD reports that Tehran has medium class range missiles at their disposal. Correct me if i am incorrect. I seem to just remember hearing that on FOX NEWS. The citation from Panetta comes from [Globalsecurity.org](http://Globalsecurity.org). You do remember when we overthrew the elected president Mossadegh in Iran. What have they done that reaches that level? We put them under a dictator, the Shah for decades . What do we do to spies we find in America? Generally a long, long prison term. We put a spy ring in Iran but somehow that is OK? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/27 "2011-05-23T04:57:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh dear, we have a real live “SEAL”. Wow! :dubious: Well, technically speaking he said “the SEAL in me”. Maybe he just has a tiny SEAL living inside of him. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/28 "2011-05-23T15:19:47Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh dear, we have a real live “SEAL”. Wow! :dubious: No, no, no. He’s an [Officer of Independent Intelligence, a Security Officer, an Officer of Candor](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=609495). Remember To Cap the Spelling. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/29 "2011-05-23T16:36:32Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m not a fan of the Saudi government, but what terrorist groups do they sponsor? Their brand of Wahhabi Islam is exactly the kind subscribed to by Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. One cannot deny the continued support and aid they give to foreign terrorist groups to spread their ideology, nor the cleric and schools that still teach them. In a country where even peaceful protests against the government is not allowed, it would be extremely silly to think that these schools and clerics do not operate without the backing of the government Well, one can deny it, I suppose, because the US State Department has made the political decision not to put Saudi Arabia on its official terrorism state sponsors. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/30 "2011-05-24T01:09:10Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Their brand of Wahhabi Islam is exactly the kind subscribed to by Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. One cannot deny the continued support and aid they give to foreign terrorist groups to spread their ideology, nor the cleric and schools that still teach them. In a country where even peaceful protests against the government is not allowed, it would be extremely silly to think that these schools and clerics do not operate without the backing of the government > > Well, one can deny it, I suppose, because the US State Department has made the political decision not to put Saudi Arabia on its official terrorism state sponsors. The Ben Laden family built most of Saudi Arabia. They are a multi millionaire family and very powerful. The Ben Ladens and many other Saudis financed Osama. Of the 19 highjackers, 17 were Saudis. They have the oil. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/31 "2011-05-24T03:53:50Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Their brand of Wahhabi Islam is exactly the kind subscribed to by Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. One cannot deny the continued support and aid they give to foreign terrorist groups to spread their ideology, nor the cleric and schools that still teach them. In a country where even peaceful protests against the government is not allowed, it would be extremely silly to think that these schools and clerics do not operate without the backing of the government > > Well, one can deny it, I suppose, because the US State Department has made the political decision not to put Saudi Arabia on its official terrorism state sponsors. The State Department chose to not place the Saudi government on that list because they can distinguish between religious beliefs and politics and recognize that not all adherents of any religious movement are guarateed to march in lock step. It is true that Wahhabism is the version of Islam that is practiced by the majority of Saudis–including the Royal family and Osama Bin Laden. However, that is because that is the variety of Islam that has prevailed in that corner of the world for about 200 years. However, They do not all share identical political beliefs. bin Laden actually “declared war” against the Saudi government before he “declared war” against the U.S. He considered the Royal family and many of its citizens to be too lax in their practice of Islam and after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, he protested against the presence of U.S. forces in Saudi Arabia. His continued protests of U.S. presence on Saudi land caused the Saudi government to exile him in 1992. He continued to condemn the Saudi government throughout his life and, beginning in 2003, al Qaida actually began launching attacks against Arabs in Saudi Arabia. Whatever prayers they say each Friday, and whatever religious tracts they read outside the Quran, it is not true that the Saudi government is a “terrorist” organization just because most of its members follow Wahhabism. It is probably true that there are individual members of the Saudi government, (and even members of the royal family), who support al Qaida, but that simply indicates that views in that part of the world are as disjointed as views everywhere in the world and any such support has to be undertaken in secret, since the Saudi government and al Qaida are in direct conflict. ---
**Author:** ![chiefwhitesr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@chiefwhitesr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiefwhitesr)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/32 "2011-05-29T15:13:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Which do you want: A dialogue between the U.S. and Iran, or a standoff? > > Diplomacy is good. Jumping into war… not so much. Remember that nearly a decade ago Congress gave the President the ability to launch a war against Iraq – as a last resort. Instead, the President used the ‘last resort’ option first, and we’re still there expending lives and treasure. Certainly a military confrontation over the arrest of _alleged_ U.S. assets is premature. Imagine if we had launched missiles against the USSR ever time one of our assets was arrested there. I guess I said two things. I want to come to the table with Iran but in a way that will be pointful with intent to distribute our message clearly and without hesitation. I foresee a standoff because of Iran’s record. ---
**Author:** ![chiefwhitesr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@chiefwhitesr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiefwhitesr)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/33 "2011-05-29T15:17:32Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > No, no, no. He’s an [Officer of Independent Intelligence, a Security Officer, an Officer of Candor](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=609495). Remember To Cap the Spelling. Sarcasm only insults and I am picking up on the fact that 40% of all replies that are coming from members are injury and sarcasm. I am trying to have a serious discussion here and I don’t appreciate it. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/34 "2011-05-29T15:53:43Z")
> [@chiefwhitesr](#): > > I guess I said two things. I want to come to the table with Iran but in a way that will be pointful with intent to distribute our message clearly and without hesitation. I foresee a standoff because of Iran’s record. There will be no stand-off over this issue unless the Iranians captured Americans in their round-up. There will be diplomatic efforts if Iran convicts those American hikers of being part of the spy ring, but of course there are already efforts to have the hikers returned. It’s been a week since you suggested we go to war with Iran over the arrest of alleged spies. Do you still think the U.S. should attack Iran? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/35 "2011-05-29T17:20:36Z")
> [@chiefwhitesr](#): > > Sarcasm only insults and I am picking up on the fact that 40% of all replies that are coming from members are injury and sarcasm. I am trying to have a serious discussion here and I don’t appreciate it. Thank you. This tends to be a sarcastic crowd. Posting information about oneself that appears to be an effort to establish oneself as an “authority” tends to elicit such sarcasm. Direct insults are prohibited in this forum, but snide remarks are not. ---
**Author:** ![chiefwhitesr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@chiefwhitesr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiefwhitesr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/36 "2011-06-05T19:59:54Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You do remember when we overthrew the elected president Mossadegh in Iran. What have they done that reaches that level? We put them under a dictator, the Shah for decades . > What do we do to spies we find in America? Generally a long, long prison term. We put a spy ring in Iran but somehow that is OK? It just irks me to no end to lose valuable assets. ---
**Author:** ![chiefwhitesr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@chiefwhitesr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiefwhitesr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/37 "2011-06-05T20:02:03Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This tends to be a sarcastic crowd. Posting information about oneself that appears to be an effort to establish oneself as an “authority” tends to elicit such sarcasm. > Direct insults are prohibited in this forum, but snide remarks are not. Oh! I didn’t know that. Apparently I am talking to the wrong people. ---
**Author:** ![chiefwhitesr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@chiefwhitesr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiefwhitesr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/38 "2011-06-05T20:05:37Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > There will be no stand-off over this issue unless the Iranians captured Americans in their round-up. There will be diplomatic efforts if Iran convicts those American hikers of being part of the spy ring, but of course there are already efforts to have the hikers returned. > > It’s been a week since you suggested we go to war with Iran over the arrest of alleged spies. Do you still think the U.S. should attack Iran? I don’t believe (correct me if I am mistaken) that I quite put it in terms as “go to war” but I do think we should advocate for any foreign aid that we have recruited that has been captured. By the way, The news hasn’t said a word about it so far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![chiefwhitesr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@chiefwhitesr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiefwhitesr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/39 "2011-06-05T20:07:41Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The Ben Laden family built most of Saudi Arabia. They are a multi millionaire family and very powerful. The Ben Ladens and many other Saudis financed Osama. > Of the 19 highjackers, 17 were Saudis. > They have the oil. Does anyone besides me think we should be drilling more wells? ---
**Author:** ![chiefwhitesr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@chiefwhitesr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiefwhitesr)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813/40 "2011-06-05T20:15:20Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Working link for OP](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iran-espionage-20110522,0,239266.story). > > [Here is a table of missiles](http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/missile/) that Iran has. > > As someone said in the locked thread, a sovereign state is perfectly within its rights to arrest spies. While the loss of human assets is regrettable, it’s not _casus belli_ to invade or attack Iran. Are you a member of the associated press in LA? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repost-of-iran-topic-posted-5-22-11/582813.md?page=3)