# Representative George Santos: Indictment and Prosecution (Expelled from Congress on Dec 1, 2023) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 10, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850 "2023-05-10T14:28:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/261 "2023-11-01T23:48:53Z")
OK the Santos expulsion is not succeeding, it’s not going to even get a majority as there are D votes to keep him in. (The Tlaib censure failed with R votes against. The MTG censure was not brought to a vote in this round.) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/262 "2023-11-01T23:51:55Z")
Forgive my naivete, but why would Democrats vote that way? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/263 "2023-11-01T23:56:20Z")
He is the gift that keeps on giving, when it comes to making Republicans look bad. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/264 "2023-11-01T23:59:34Z")
Wow. If I had a say in voting out the lying-ist Republican this side of Donald Trump, I’d have to go with my conscience and smash the gong. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/265 "2023-11-02T00:00:00Z")
It is unprecedented to eject a Member absent treason or a criminal conviction. Some Democrats are wary of the precedent. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/266 "2023-11-02T00:02:22Z")
OK, that’s plausible I suppose… ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/267 "2023-11-02T00:07:59Z")
The expulsion vote lost, 19 voted present. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/268 "2023-11-02T01:06:40Z")
There is a House Ethics Committee investigation of Santos ongoing. Those members shouldn’t be prejudging the results of their own investigation. I don’t see a roll call after a quick web search, but that may account for most of the present votes. Voting present sounds good to me. It minimizes prejudicial pretrial publicity regarding Santos’s trial scheduled for next year. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/269 "2023-11-02T02:06:45Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > It is unprecedented to eject a Member absent treason or a criminal conviction. Some Democrats are wary of the precedent. It seems like that horse has long since left the barn. The Republicans don’t seem to feel that they are any universal principles. They feel there’s one set on rules for Republicans and one set of rules for Democrats. So just because the Democrats didn’t expel Santos because he hasn’t been convicted yet doesn’t mean the Republicans will hold to the same standard when they feel like expelling a Democrat. They’ll kick out a Democrat because they heard a rumor he once thought about breaking a law. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/270 "2023-11-02T02:21:28Z")
IMHO, the democrats not voting to expel are hoping that he’ll keep damaging his district for Republicans, and the Republican reputation in general (to the point that it reaches the teensy-tiny percentage of truly ‘neutral’ voters). In terms though of kicking him out otherwise, I don’t see any need to wait for conviction, the mere fact that he has _publicly admitted_ to falsifying his entire persona and background during his election would have been enough, in a saner age, for his own to have kicked him out, much less the opposing party. So yeah, politics. ETA - by a prior age, I’m talking around Gary Hart era or so, certainly not the last few decades. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/271 "2023-11-02T02:37:29Z")
Because of the 2/3 constitutional threshold, for the foreseeable near/mid future a unilateral partisan expulsion is not a realistic prospect. On this matter apparently leadership left it to each member to do as they best considered, and the process is a _political_ not a judiciary process – so in fact, yes, they could have removed him for his terrible taste in pullovers if they so wanted to, but they can also want to _not_ remove him because it is politically expedient for both sides. The R members who put forth the privileged motion would have been fully aware that the larger conference would be thinking of one of the four precious votes they can afford to spare, and to the Dems he is just an albatross on the other side – I mean those 4 New York Republicans made the motion as the ultimate maneouver to distance themselves from him, a year before the election. The votes were: to remove, 24R, 155D; to not remove, 182R, 31D; present 4R 15D; 11 absent from each delegation. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/272 "2023-11-02T02:38:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It seems like that horse has long since left the barn. The Republicans don’t seem to feel that they are any universal principles. They feel there’s one set on rules for Republicans and one set of rules for Democrats. 23 Republicans voted to table the motion to censure Rashida Tlaib today, resulting in its defeat. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/273 "2023-11-02T09:40:53Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > It is unprecedented to eject a Member absent treason or a criminal conviction. Some Democrats are wary of the precedent. Jamie Raskin (D - MD 08) released the following press statement along those lines: > [@](#): > > I’m a Constitution guy. The House has expelled five people in our history, three for joining the Confederacy as traitors to the Union and two after they were convicted of serious criminal offenses. Santos has not been criminally convicted yet of any of the offenses he has been indicted for that were cited in the Resolution nor has he been found guilty of ethics offenses in the House internal process. > > This would be a terrible precedent to set, expelling people who have not been convicted of a crime and without internal due process. If and when Santos is convicted of these serious criminal offenses or ethics charges, I will certainly vote to expel him. Until then, it’s a very risky road to go down and we have to stick by due process and the rule of law, as obvious as the eventual result seems. In these times of war, chaos, insurrection, division and lawlessness, the rule of law is a lifeline for us. > > I can think of four or five Democratic Members the Republicans would like to expel without any criminal conviction or adverse ethics findings tomorrow simply because they hate their politics. Indeed, the same New York Republicans who want to expel Santos now because he is a complete political albatross for them acted to vigorously defend him in the spring because they wanted his vote for their party on the floor. If Members are not going to be expelled for purely political reasons, we need to stick to due process and the rule of law. > > Back in the spring, the Republicans promised action within 60 days on the sprawling Santos ethics investigation, but nothing has happened since then. Now, they are promising action by November 17. Good, it’s about time. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/274 "2023-11-02T10:47:21Z")
That was well said. Raskin is alright. ---
**Author:** ![Dandan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@Dandan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/275 "2023-11-02T12:56:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He is the gift that keeps on giving, when it comes to making Republicans look bad. You misspelled “worse”. Dan ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/276 "2023-11-02T13:04:13Z")
While I agree with the outcome of this vote (the House Ethics Committee hasn’t even reported on its investigation and the resolution was only initiated because NY Republicans are getting nervous how he’ll impact their reelection), I think the precedent of refusing to expel absent a criminal conviction should be viewed as a “soft” precedent. The data is skewed by the fact the many scandal-plagued politicians resign before they can be expelled. And the short terms in the House mean that voters often get to render their verdict before their fellow legislators can. There’s plenty of behavior short of a criminal conviction that could warrant expulsion. But I agree with Raskin that there at least needs to be House internal due process to substantiate the allegations that might warrant expulsion. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/277 "2023-11-02T13:22:25Z")
OK, but you do think that Santos should resign, right? That’s one of the reasons why there haven’t been more expulsions – when it looked like it might go that way, the person resigned. Santos should have resigned when all of his resume lies were found out. Then he should have resigned again after the first indictment, and now he should super-resign. Agreed? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/278 "2023-11-02T13:26:12Z")
I agree with every word Congressman Raskin wrote. Good on him. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/279 "2023-11-02T13:34:29Z")
yes, he should have resigned when his house of cards started to tumble. some people just missed the couth train. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/280 "2023-11-02T14:39:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He is the gift that keeps on giving, when it comes to making Republicans look bad. Nothing like a Republican for making Republicans look bad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850.md?page=15)