# Representative George Santos: Indictment and Prosecution (Expelled from Congress on Dec 1, 2023) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 10, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850 "2023-05-10T14:28:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2024, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/681 "2024-03-23T03:37:57Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > This just in from X. George is now filing as an Independant. His statement though! > ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2024, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/682 "2024-03-23T03:53:30Z")
Thank god we have someone with integrity in the race. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2024, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/683 "2024-03-23T17:20:45Z")
I’m torn - does he really think he’s popular enough to win a district (I doubt), is it a Trump-esque Hail Mary hoping to win a seat and delay his incoming investigations, or (my bet) a ploy to get the (R) team to buy him OUT of the race rather than split the vote. Or the last but slightly more evil, an equally Trump-like desire to grift as much as he can, whether or NOT he can ALSO get the (R) team to buy him off. It may have become that now that the RNC’s funds are solely for Trump to do with as he sees fit. Yeah, this sounds most likely. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/684 "2024-03-23T17:30:37Z")
Or, he just can’t stand to not have his name in the papers. Rather like a certain fellow Long Islander… ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2024, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/685 "2024-03-23T18:25:29Z")
I’ve been seeing references to “buying out” DJT in other threads and now Santos here. Isn’t that just code for saying “why don’t they bribe x to do what they want”? And wouldn’t that be illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2024, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/686 "2024-03-23T18:31:03Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Or, he just can’t stand to not have his name in the papers. Rather like a certain fellow Long Islander… Yeah, I think it’s just “I don’t care what you write about me, as long as you spell my name right.” ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2024, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/687 "2024-03-23T20:08:40Z")
In our system, it’s probably not illegal. After all, running for office is voluntary, suspending a run is voluntary. If I go to you and say “here’s a loan for $100,000 contingent on you entering/leaving a race _legally_” I think it’d be _unethical_ but probably not illegal. It also may or may not be _enforceable_ as a contract, but that’s a separate question. No force is being involved. Now, there may be issues in how it’s handled as a _campaign_ contribution (as Trump is finding out) - but if I declared it openly, or, at least, noted it accurately as such for tax purposes, again, probably unethical, doubtful illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2024, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/688 "2024-03-23T23:22:33Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Or, he just can’t stand to not have his name in the papers. Rather like a certain fellow Long Islander… While Trump has shown himself to be a bottomless pit of need when it comes to praise, he has not also shown he does not like to see any mention of himself that he deems to be critical. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/689 "2024-03-24T01:59:04Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Isn’t that just code for saying “why don’t they bribe x to do what they want”? And wouldn’t that be illegal? Why would you possibly think that anything to do with legal/illegal enters the calculus for any of thee people? They do not care one whit for whether any given [something] is illegal or not. They care only if it is advantageous to themselves. Laws are for losers, not winners. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/690 "2024-03-24T02:23:10Z")
Believe me when I say I don’t think any of these people care if it is legal or not. I would suggest you should take that post as rhetorical rather than genuine questions. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/691 "2024-03-24T12:02:16Z")
Gotcha. I tend to be overly literal absent some really over the top rhetoric. My fail. Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/692 "2024-03-24T15:10:39Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > In our system, it’s probably not illegal. After all, running for office is voluntary, suspending a run is voluntary. If I go to you and say “here’s a loan for $100,000 contingent on you entering/leaving a race _legally_” I think it’d be _unethical_ but probably not illegal. It also may or may not be _enforceable_ as a contract, but that’s a separate question. Slight hijack, but IIRC John Grisham once threw in a bit where a couple of co-conspirators — or are they? — debate whether they’re talking about illegally bribing the Governor. Oh, sure, they agree it’d be illegal to give him a big campaign contribution in exchange for him pardoning a criminal; but what if we give him that money in exchange for him _not_ pardoning one? ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/693 "2024-03-24T15:32:52Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Oh, sure, they agree it’d be illegal to give him a big campaign contribution in exchange for him pardoning a criminal; but what if we give him that money in exchange for him _not_ pardoning one? I think this is a huge reason that some donors sign up and pay for those fancy “in-person” or “off-the-record” meetings. You have your talks, a meeting of minds happens, and a sudden gift for your “friend” (throwing shade at our SCOTUS here) materializes, or Santos “after carefully listening to his constituent(s)” changes their mind after learning more on the subject. You’d have to be blindingly stupid to be blatant, when “wink wink nudge nudge” works just fine and is more deniable. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/694 "2024-03-24T15:38:38Z")
Yep. Only idiots explicitly tie official acts to campaign contributions, especially when there’s no need to. Everybody knows how the game is played. A donor holds a fundraiser for an officeholder. A little while later (preferably at least a few weeks for appearances sake), he calls up the officeholder to express his concern/support regarding Issue X. No words are expressed to connect the two. But you can bet your ass the politician is going to jump on Issue X. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/695 "2024-03-24T15:40:59Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Slight hijack, but IIRC John Grisham once threw in a bit where a couple of co-conspirators — or are they? — debate whether they’re talking about illegally bribing the Governor. Oh, sure, they agree it’d be illegal to give him a big campaign contribution in exchange for him pardoning a criminal; but what if we give him that money in exchange for him _not_ pardoning one? IANAL but I think the line is crossed when you offer money to a public official to perform or not perform an act of their office (such as issuing or not issuing a pardon). Running for office is not an act of the office so it probably falls outside of this area. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/696 "2024-03-24T15:42:44Z")
Thank you @Little_Nemo, that was a much better parsing of the situation than my earlier effort. Still likely unethical, probably not illegal. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/697 "2024-03-24T15:51:51Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > No force is being involved. Now, there may be issues in how it’s handled as a _campaign_ contribution (as Trump is finding out) - but if I declared it openly, or, at least, noted it accurately as such for tax purposes, again, probably unethical, doubtful illegal. I do think the issue here is whether this could be considered a de facto campaign contribution to the candidate’s opponent. Then it would have to comply with campaign finance laws, such as the $3,300 personal limit. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/698 "2024-03-24T15:54:44Z")
Oh, certainly, I think we’re in agreement on that. There would be much quibbling and careful accountants involved for MORE competent political criminals than Trump or Santos. But this is SANTOS. He’d probably say “just give the 100k to my close, personal friend Mr. Devolder, who happens to be visiting his girlfriend in Canada and out of touch right now”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/699 "2024-03-24T15:56:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > IANAL but I think the line is crossed when you offer money to a public official to perform or not perform an act of their office (such as issuing or not issuing a pardon). (Spoiler alert: IIRC, yes, after convincing themselves that what they’re planning wouldn’t technically be an offense, the law _does_ wind up coming down on them like a hammer for it, because, well, you know.) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/700 "2024-03-24T17:08:46Z")
These days, it’s not illegal unless the bribe is handed off in a white cartoon-style bag with big dollar signs on it……if you’re Republican, that is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850.md?page=36)