# Representative George Santos: Indictment and Prosecution (Expelled from Congress on Dec 1, 2023) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 10, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850 "2023-05-10T14:28:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/81 "2023-05-11T02:19:50Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Explain how this is good for the GOP. They probably can’t hold the seat in a special election. These kind of cases drag on. So I don’t know there were be a special electionj. But probably? OK. What’s that probability? Wishful thinking is that it isn’t really a swing district – Santos got incredibly lucky. But we know for a fact that a good GOP candidate can win the district. And I think we know for a fact that Santos isn’t a good one any more. As for the sometimes-implied idea that it makes the GOP look bad when one of their politicians goes to jail, I don’t recall Democrats going into decline in the Philadelphia area after it repeatedly happened to them. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/82 "2023-05-11T02:21:16Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > They probably can’t hold the seat in a special election. Right, the main reason McCarthy won’t push him out is this seat is not safe. And he can’t really spare one vote. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/83 "2023-05-11T14:44:22Z")
More bad news for George: [election watchdog group thinks his campaign treasurer doesn’t actually exist, wants FEC to investigate](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/watchdog-files-new-complaint-with-fec-alleging-theres-reason-to-believe-santos-treasurer-doesnt-exist) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/84 "2023-05-11T22:33:24Z")
Interestingly, this has been known [since early March.](https://www.businessinsider.com/george-santos-mysterious-new-treasure-unknown-to-local-politicians-2023-3) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/85 "2023-05-12T15:23:58Z")
Relevant _New Yorker_ cartoon: > **[Daily Cartoon: Thursday, May 11th](https://www.newyorker.com/cartoons/daily-cartoon/thursday-may-11th-polygraph-explosion)** > > “No, the polygraph isn’t broken. George Santos just entered the building.” ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/86 "2023-05-16T20:30:55Z")
The House will vote on a resolution to expel Santos after Democrats used a parliamentary maneuver to force a vote. > **[House to vote on privileged resolution to expel Santos - Roll Call](https://rollcall.com/2023/05/16/house-to-vote-on-privileged-resolution-to-expel-santos/)** > > The House will consider this week whether to expel embattled New York GOP Rep. George Santos, after a Democrat forced a vote. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/87 "2023-05-16T20:40:24Z")
I predict a vote that falls entirely along party lines: 213 to expel, 221 or 222 to not expel (depending on whether Santos himself is allowed to vote). _Edit: I see, in the Roll Call article, that there are 60 Republican co-sponsors to the resolution to hold the expulsion vote. Maybe the GOP will surprise me._ ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/88 "2023-05-16T20:42:39Z")
Still, it puts the Republicans on record that they want Santos counted among their numbers and stand beside him in his criminal behavior. That won’t put off their base, but at least it’s out there in black and white for anyone with a functional sense of ethics and three working brain cells. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/89 "2023-05-16T20:44:49Z")
It’s needs two thirds to pass. I doubt they have the votes ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/90 "2023-05-16T20:46:50Z")
It’s most likely Republicans will attempt to table the resolution or refer it to the Ethics Committee, which would avoid then having to vote up-or-down on the resolution itself. Either maneuver would require a majority vote so they’d need to hold almost all their members. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/91 "2023-05-16T20:48:23Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > It’s needs two thirds to pass. I doubt they have the votes If the 60 GOP Representatives who co-sponsored the resolution all voted to expel, as well as the 213 Democratic Representatives, that’d give 273 votes, which would be just a smidge less than the 290 needed for a 2/3 majority. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/92 "2023-05-16T20:51:16Z")
Where are you seeing 60 GOP co-sponsors? The linked article says only 48 co-sponsors, all of whom are Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/93 "2023-05-16T20:52:25Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Where are you seeing 60 GOP co-sponsors? The linked article says only 48 co-sponsors, all of whom are Democrats. About 2/3 of the way down the article (assuming you and I are looking at the same article; I’m looking at the article to which flurb linked in post #86): > [@](#): > > The resolution currently has [159 co-sponsors](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-resolution/114/cosponsors), 60 of whom are Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/94 "2023-05-16T21:13:46Z")
Reload the page. > [@](#): > > Two-thirds of the House would need to vote for Garcia’s resolution for Santos to be expelled. The resolution currently has 48 co-sponsors, none of them Republicans. > [@](#): > > _This report was corrected to_ _reflect the correct number of co-sponsors and their party affiliation._ ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/95 "2023-05-16T21:14:52Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > Reload the page. Thank you; that was quite the mis-statement in the original version of the article. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/96 "2023-05-16T21:42:12Z")
Not meant to be a reply to kenobi\_65, but not sure how to edit that out: Past practice is that members are only expelled after conviction (and then only if they refuse to resign at that time). As noted by previous posters, this expulsion vote will probably fail. Then, the next time a Democratic member is indicted, the GOP will use this precedent to try to expel the innocent-until-proved-guilty Democrat, and say Democrats are hypocrites. And the Republicans will be correct about that. As for it being really, really obvious that Santos is guilty, based on newspaper reporting, the same was true when my congressperson Chaka Fattah was arrested. That was no reason to override my vote for him about ten years ago. I’m really at a loss as to why we should give up classic liberal principle in return for — nothing. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/97 "2023-05-16T21:57:29Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Past practice is that members are only expelled after conviction (and then only if they refuse to resign at that time). > > As noted by previous posters, this expulsion vote will probably fail. > > Then, the next time a Democratic member is indicted, the GOP will use this precedent to try to expel the innocent-until-proved-guilty Democrat, and say Democrats are hypocrites. > > And the Republicans will be correct about that. Slight difference though - Santos is already _admitted_ to falsifying his credentials, background and the like. Those alone _should_ have been enough to have the Republicans expel him in a more sane day and age. The allegations of additional wrongdoing are icing on the cake at this point: had he (or the Republican party) felt beholden to any ethics, he would have long since been removed. So, no, calling them out on his admitted actions alone should have been enough and while it won’t be effective in removing him, keeping his issues that he confessed to openly in the news over and over and over again may be a non-zero gain. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/98 "2023-05-16T22:00:52Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Thank you; that was quite the mis-statement in the original version of the article. I was so confused. lol ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/99 "2023-05-16T22:57:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Slight difference though - Santos is already _admitted_ to falsifying his credentials, background and the like. Those alone _should_ have been enough to have the Republicans expel him in a more sane day and age. Slight difference, yes – if any. If I took a couple weeks and went through the history of the [dozens of members](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes) of congress who have been convicted of crimes, surely I could show that Santos isn’t the first to make pre-trial admissions of wrongdoing while claiming innocence of what the indictment charges. In the entire history of the United States, no House member has been expelled except for treason where they couldn’t be tried due to having fled to the confederacy in 1861, or due to refusal to resign after a felony conviction. Aside from the disrespect of the liberal principle of allowing the trial to go forward with minimal prejudgments, this is a Democratic own-goal. Next time a Democratic member is indicted for bribery, as, given human fraility and the large number of members, will happen, the Democrats will be, because of this precedent, accused of not caring about bribery due to wanting to wait for trial. The correct answer to such an accusation – we care about bribery, but care more about due process – will ring hollow, at least to me. P.S. As I wrote above - “No House Member.” Senator Blount was sort-of expelled in 1797 due to a letter from him, being found, that sounded like treason. I’d say that was also an unnecessary violation of the innocent-until-proven guilty principle. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/100 "2023-05-16T23:11:13Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > depending on whether Santos himself is allowed to vote). Wait, why would he be able to vote on this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850.md?page=6)