# Representative George Santos: Indictment and Prosecution (Expelled from Congress on Dec 1, 2023) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 10, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850 "2023-05-10T14:28:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/101 "2023-05-16T23:18:09Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Wait, why would he be able to vote on this? Because he is (as of right now, at least) a member of the House, and it’s the House that votes, not the House-minus-the-member-in-question. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/102 "2023-05-16T23:41:12Z")
It just seems silly that he’d be allowed to vote on this particular question. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/103 "2023-05-16T23:44:26Z")
Hmmm, I consider it fair that he gets to vote on his own behalf. I felt the same way about the Tennessee reps who were briefly ousted. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/104 "2023-05-16T23:45:12Z")
I didn’t think of it like that. I suppose it makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/105 "2023-05-17T00:43:22Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Then, the next time a Democratic member is indicted, the GOP will use this precedent to try to expel the innocent-until-proved-guilty Democrat, and say Democrats are hypocrites. Whereas if the Democrats choose to not vote to expel Santos before a conviction, the Republicans will look at that precedent the next time a Democrat is indicted - and ignore the precedent and vote to expel the Democrat before a conviction. Let’s not delude ourselves into believing that if we play fair with the Republicans, they’ll play fair with us. They see playing fair and following rules as signs of weakness. They’re things you only do when you’re strong enough to get away with cheating. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/106 "2023-05-17T01:31:04Z")
It’s no different to me than a candidate being able to vote for themself in an election. That’s normal. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/107 "2023-05-17T01:34:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Whereas if the Democrats choose to not vote to expel Santos before a conviction, the Republicans will look at that precedent the next time a Democrat is indicted - and ignore the precedent and vote to expel the Democrat before a conviction. Because of the 2/3 requirement — no problem. Then they look, to centrist voters, like weak unprincipled losers. No centrists? Even if true today, which I doubt, American history tells me that the nativist fever goes in cycles and so will eventually break. Then there will be more centrists. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/108 "2023-05-17T01:46:58Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > It’s most likely Republicans will attempt to table the resolution or refer it to the Ethics Committee I get the impression that referral of the resolution to the Ethics Committee will be the likeliest move. Not technically “doing nothing” but also avoiding an immediate vote, in the name of allowing procedural formality. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/109 "2023-05-17T07:48:43Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Aside from the disrespect of the liberal principle of allowing the trial to go forward with minimal prejudgments, this is a Democratic own-goal. Next time a Democratic member is indicted for bribery, as, given human fraility and the large number of members, will happen, the Democrats will be, because of this precedent, accused of not caring about bribery due to wanting to wait for trial. The correct answer to such an accusation – we care about bribery, but care more about due process – will ring hollow, at least to me. Suppose that does happen; Democrats rally behind a House member under indictment. Will Republican calls for expulsion also ring hollow, after having defended Santos while he was under indictment? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/110 "2023-05-17T10:39:23Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Suppose that does happen; Democrats rally behind a House member under indictment. Will Republican calls for expulsion also ring hollow, after having defended Santos while he was under indictment? Possibly, if they (Republicans) cared or would be affected by such things. ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/111 "2023-05-17T11:25:47Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > If the 60 GOP Representatives who co-sponsored the resolution all voted to expel, as well as the 213 Democratic Representatives, that’d give 273 votes, which would be just a smidge less than the 290 needed for a 2/3 majority That the numbers came oh so close but no cigar makes the cynic in me wonder if there was backroom dealing amongst the GOP members to decide which 60 would be the ones to “take a stand” on this that would help them in swing voters’ eyes. Are they all from swing districts? I wouldn’t be surprised if their principled stand that these 60 made (and the rest of their caucus who chose not to) bears only passing resemblance to how they really feel about the situation. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/112 "2023-05-17T12:04:45Z")
> [@Ponderoid](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if their principled stand that these 60 made Apparently there never were 60 republicans sponsoring the bill. It was a mistake in the article: > [@74westy](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Two-thirds of the House would need to vote for Garcia’s resolution for Santos to be expelled. The resolution currently has 48 co-sponsors, none of them Republicans. > > > [@](#): > > > > _This report was corrected to_ _reflect the correct number of co-sponsors and their party affiliation._ ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/113 "2023-05-17T13:02:19Z")
There was also a link earlier in the thread to the wrong resolution. This is the correct link: [https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-resolution/114](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-resolution/114) > This resolution expels Representative George Santos from the House of Representatives. Note that there are indeed 48 co-sponsors, all Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/114 "2023-05-18T00:05:51Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I get the impression that referral of the resolution to the Ethics Committee will be the likeliest move And it’s exactly what happened [https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4009434-house-votes-to-send-santos-expulsion-resolution-to-ethics-committee/](https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4009434-house-votes-to-send-santos-expulsion-resolution-to-ethics-committee/) Interestingly, Santos says he _would_ resign _if_ Ethics rules for his removal. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/115 "2023-05-18T00:06:48Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Interestingly, Santos says he _would_ resign _if_ Ethics ruled to seek his removal. Are you saying we should take him at his word? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/116 "2023-05-18T00:07:23Z")
That’s what makes it interesting. Means there will be another whole argument when they do and he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/117 "2023-05-18T00:16:04Z")
At the risk of ruining all the suspense, which party dominates the Ethics Committee members? Also considering any voting rules in that committee which enables a minority to block an action. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/118 "2023-05-18T00:25:00Z")
Equally composed 5-5, chaired by a member from the House majority party. Current configuration from their site: > [@](#): > > ### Republicans > > Chairman Michael Guest, Mississippi > David P. Joyce, Ohio > John H. Rutherford, Florida > Andrew R. Garbarino, New York > Michelle Fischbach, Minnesota > > ### Democrats > > Ranking Member Susan Wild, Pennsylvania > Veronica Escobar, Texas > Mark DeSaulnier, California > Deborah K. Ross, North Carolina > Glenn F. Ivey, Maryland ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/119 "2023-05-18T01:56:28Z")
So what happens when a vote in the ethics committee is tied? I’m guessing nothing? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850/120 "2023-05-18T11:03:43Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Are you saying we should take him at his word? Surely this is the line that he wouldn’t cross. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/representative-george-santos-indictment-and-prosecution-expelled-from-congress-on-dec-1-2023/983850.md?page=7)