# Repressive treatment of rioters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492 "2011-08-12T19:17:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/41 "2011-08-13T07:40:16Z")
These riots have really brought out the right wing nutters. First we had the racists, but it turned out they weren’t all black so then it was those who bemoan people “sucking at the government teat”, then it turned out there were students and teachers and other people not below the poverty line, so it was just a general hatred of all. And, of course, there’s been the constant calls seen on this board for massacres and police snipers murdering little kids. And the Daily Mail, as you might expect, finding a gang of Sikh businessmen who wave swords around to “protect their property”, thereby committing a couple of offences in the line of possession of an offensive weapon, threatening to commit acts of violence, and so on. Not that anyone calls for them to be arrested. The right wingers might see violence against the person as bad in an abstract sort of way, but it’s perfectly justified if it prevents violence against property. That’s a real crime. Now the riots have stopped and the predictions of death for the respectable at the hands of the hordes of barbarians have gone out the window and the time for the police machine gunning people from helicopters has gone, the blood lust has just shifted to the courts. Some people just want any excuse to see the rioters as barbarians, and to see them suffer. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/42 "2011-08-13T07:41:26Z")
“Help help, I’m being repressed! When, I smash, loot and burn, there are legal consequences, and I don’t like them!” Fucking retard. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/43 "2011-08-13T07:49:41Z")
Look; I dislike the rioters as much as the next person, and I am a throw the book at them kind. But I wonder if the people will still be crowing when 6 months to a year from now, the Court of Appeal (and the Crown Court) has properly overturned many of the sentences and convictions for not following the sentencing guidelines and the state has to dole out significant money in compensation? If you want to send somebody down for a long period; charge them with something that has a long sentence and establish the elements of said charge beyond reasonable doubt. Otherwise the current situation is such that it satiates public lust; while be mournfully short on fulfilling public interest. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/44 "2011-08-13T08:18:19Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > “Help help, I’m being repressed! When, I smash, loot and burn, there are legal consequences, and I don’t like them!” > > Fucking retard. When the police who started the violence by beating a peaceful sixteen year old girl in front of dozens of witnesses are prosecuted, then come and talk to me about the consequences of criminality. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/45 "2011-08-13T08:32:13Z")
Ah, I forgot, a crime was committed by some people who got away with it, so by the Law of Greater Retardation, now a lot more people can commit crimes and get away with it or they’re being repressed. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/46 "2011-08-13T08:53:26Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Ah, I forgot, a crime was committed by some people who got away with it, so by the Law of Greater Retardation, now a lot more people can commit crimes and get away with it or they’re being repressed. No-one got away with anything. It’s not that no-one knows who did it. It’s not that it can’t be proven. It’s that they operate with impunity. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/47 "2011-08-13T09:07:06Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Stealing three quids worth of bottled water? Six months in jail, and for a student so it’ll damage his prospects in the long term as it will interrupt his studies. I agree. > [@blindboyard](#): > > The rioters are the only decent people in this situation. The judges and the polices are a gang of cunts lusting after a bit of blood. That’s the only reason they get into that game anyway. I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/48 "2011-08-13T09:31:58Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > No-one got away with anything. They were arrested, tried for their crimes and convicted? No? Then they got away with it. This is hardly rocket science. And even with that being the case, some people getting away with a crime does not mean that criminals are being “repressed” if they are punished. No, not even if the punishments are excessive. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/49 "2011-08-13T09:42:31Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > “I’d smash you if you took your uniform off”.: sixteen weeks inside. > > Stealing three quids worth of bottled water? Six months in jail, and for a student so it’ll damage his prospects in the long term as it will interrupt his studies. Cites please, don’t believe you. No-one gets 6 months for stealing some water in this country. I’m remembering your lazy and mis-informed assertion [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14107651&postcount=49) that “Most university-types probably don’t see a black fellah from one year to the next.” > [@blindboyard](#): > > The rioters are the only decent people in this situation. The judges and the polices are a gang of cunts lusting after a bit of blood. That’s the only reason they get into that game anyway. Either this is a blatent troll, or you have a serious chip on your shoulder. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/50 "2011-08-13T10:19:17Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Relevant article: [How Riots Start, and How They Can Be Stopped by Edward Glaeser](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-12/how-riots-start-and-how-they-can-be-stopped-edward-glaeser.html). Short story: the lit on starting riots is a little woolly, but there’s talk of tipping points and the like.[1] The lit on ending riots is clearer. Pack the streets with cops, arrest everyone and release them shortly. There are variants on these themes though, so read the article. It’s not long. Or the Tyranical method, shoot them all and let god sort them out. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/51 "2011-08-13T10:27:57Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > When the police who started the violence by beating a peaceful sixteen year old girl in front of dozens of witnesses are prosecuted, then come and talk to me about the consequences of criminality. And that is what needs to happen, not riots. Governments do actually have due process - sometimes it takes work to actually get it. Police have been punished in the US for beating up people on the street. > [@blindboyard](#): > > No-one got away with anything. It’s not that no-one knows who did it. It’s not that it can’t be proven. It’s that they operate with impunity. And when they get stupid enough to do it on camera where the cops can print out the image and go arrest them, sucks to be them. Same if they are in the crowd and get nicked right then. Absolutely no sympathy. My sympathy lies with the business owners and the poor people who had flats above the businesses that got burnt out. I suppose the rioters didn’t consider it was someones mum or wife or daughter getting burnt out … but they would have raised holy hell if it was their mum, sister, daughter or own flat. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/52 "2011-08-13T10:28:52Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > “I’d smash you if you took your uniform off”.: sixteen weeks inside. > > Stealing three quids worth of bottled water? Six months in jail, and for a student so it’ll damage his prospects in the long term as it will interrupt his studies. > > The rioters are the only decent people in this situation. The judges and the polices are a gang of cunts lusting after a bit of blood. That’s the only reason they get into that game anyway. You want what you deserve? In the US, you’d get **triple** the sentence length, & a busted head besides. And you’d deserve it, nancy-boy. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/53 "2011-08-13T10:57:45Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > Ah, they don’t know what repressive is. In the Paris riots of 1968, so it is said, when the police took down a male rioter they would spread-eagle him on the pavement and pulp his balls with a nightstick. If they took down a female rioter, she’d be taken to the station and gang-raped. Sometimes they used a nightstick for that too. > > But De Gaulle got the riots under controll and was declared a hero. You heard some fanciful shit, son. The CRS weren’t tender and loving (still aren’t), and there were indeed some notorious incidents (notably one guy the cops threw unconscious in the river. He drowned.) but it wasn’t _that_ bad, not systematically at least. Although the French cops did use a fairly infamous tactic up until the late eighties, the “voltigeurs”, which consisted in saddling a pair of guys on one motorcycle, one cop drives and the other swings a long truncheon. A bop to the head or lower back at full speed smarts a little, or so I heard. The “voltigeurs” died with Malik Oussekine, whom they pursued into a stairwell and savagely beat to death in '86. Instant cause célèbre. Pretty much our own Rodney King, with the kicker that our guy was completely innocent to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/54 "2011-08-13T11:08:44Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Transport the fucking rioters. Oh thanks a frigging lot! "Dear England So who is full of convicts now? Sincerely Australia" ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/55 "2011-08-13T11:22:40Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Cites please, don’t believe you. No-one gets 6 months for stealing some water in this country. The Guardian has a data blog [here](http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/aug/11/uk-riots-magistrates-court-list), with some info on people up in court. The guy who got 16 weeks is [Ricky Gemmell](http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1455374_instant-justice-faces-of-first-men-jailed-for-their-part-in-manchester-and-salford-riots). The guy who got 6 months for nicking some water is [Nicholas Robinson](http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/uk/In-cold-light-of-day.6817234.jp). Also, I find Bosda calling someone a nancy-boy to be fucking hilarious. Mainly because I picture him doing so while wearing Elmo PJs, eating a bowl of Fruity Pebbles and watching cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/56 "2011-08-13T11:25:23Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > When the police who started the violence by beating a peaceful sixteen year old girl in front of dozens of witnesses are prosecuted, then come and talk to me about the consequences of criminality. Can we have a cite that a) this actually happened, and b) that it’s the actual reason for people looting and burning their own communities? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/57 "2011-08-13T11:32:04Z")
> [@Kal](#): > > The Guardian has a data blog [here](http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/aug/11/uk-riots-magistrates-court-list), with some info on people up in court. > > The guy who got 16 weeks is [Ricky Gemmell](http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1455374_instant-justice-faces-of-first-men-jailed-for-their-part-in-manchester-and-salford-riots). The guy who got 6 months for nicking some water is [Nicholas Robinson](http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/uk/In-cold-light-of-day.6817234.jp). > > . Lets be real about the six months for stealing water- he participated in looting a store. he wasn’t nicking water as in taking a bottle. He said he was thirsty and stole a fucking carton of water? He is a supreme opportunist. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/58 "2011-08-13T11:51:25Z")
> [@Kal](#): > > The Guardian has a data blog [here](http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/aug/11/uk-riots-magistrates-court-list), with some info on people up in court. > > The guy who got 16 weeks is [Ricky Gemmell](http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1455374_instant-justice-faces-of-first-men-jailed-for-their-part-in-manchester-and-salford-riots). The guy who got 6 months for nicking some water is [Nicholas Robinson](http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/uk/In-cold-light-of-day.6817234.jp). Thanks. I have no problem at all with the Gemmell sentence, incitement to violence is not acceptable. I think 6 months for Robinson is disproportionate, given he has no previous criminal record. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/59 "2011-08-13T12:11:35Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Color me confused. Does the British judicial system work so fast that the rioters have already been sentenced, or is the news media reporting, as they do in the US, the maximum possible sentences? Several magistrates courts in London have been sitting for 24 hours a day to get through the backlog. Many defendents are entering pleas in the magistrates courts and then being kicked into Crown Court for sentencing, where the sentences that can be handed out are much longer. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492/60 "2011-08-13T12:15:24Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Several magistrates courts in London have been sitting for 24 hours a day to get through the backlog. Many defendents are entering pleas in the magistrates courts and then being kicked into Crown Court for sentencing, where the sentences that can be handed out are much longer. Where’s a fucking Star Chamber when you need one? (And btw I totally support the tough sentences. I am not usre how kicking the offenders out of council housing is going to work but I see the point). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repressive-treatment-of-rioters/592492.md?page=4)