# Reptile fans/researchers, if you would... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 21, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863 "2010-01-21T17:40:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/1 "2010-01-21T17:40:30Z")
…can anyone ID [this lizard](http://www.flickr.com/photos/bibliodyssey/3616702624/)? The large dark one on the upper lefthand side? (It says “Fig. 2” under it in very tiny print). I’m writing a story and want to get it right. Although once I know the name I can look it up myself, it would also be helpful to know from whence it comes and whether it can change colors, if you know off the top of your head. Thanks so much! ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/2 "2010-01-21T17:43:32Z")
It looks like a monitor of some sort, genus Varanus. I’ll go look at some sites to see if I can nail down a species. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/3 "2010-01-21T17:51:48Z")
Work is going to prevent me from looking any further at this, but check out [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varanus) if you have some time. Toward the bottom is a species list that links to individual descriptions and pictures. The pattern resembles the Nile Monitor on the body, but the drawing lacks the bands that the Nile has on its tail. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/4 "2010-01-21T17:51:48Z")
Thanks, **Crotalus**! (great name - maybe I’ll name him after you :)) Actually, it’s such an old etching, it’s possible the variant is no more. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/5 "2010-01-21T17:52:51Z")
Maybe a [water monitor](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=water+monitor&aq=0&oq=water+moni&aqi=g1g-m3&start=0)? ---
**Author:** ![Rafe\_Hollister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/fbc32d/32.png) [@Rafe\_Hollister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rafe_Hollister)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/6 "2010-01-21T17:55:29Z")
Crotalus already has a genus named after him. ---
**Author:** ![cormac262](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@cormac262](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cormac262)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/7 "2010-01-21T18:05:02Z")
Perhaps a Komodo Dragon (which is a type of monitor) ? (not sure if the drawings were to scale relative to each of the other species). They get big. I don’t believe they change color, and they’re from the island of Komodo (Indonesia). Since you’re from SD, they used to have one at the zoo (kind of on the side of the reptile house). But he’s not always out in the open. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/8 "2010-01-21T18:53:40Z")
The water monitor suggested **Heart of Dorkness** is a good possibility, **cormac262** ’s Komodo dragon is possible too, although the ones I have seen have been pretty patternless. To answer a question from your OP, I have never seen or read that monitors change colors. And as for where they can be found, Africa, Asia and Australia for the genus; for individual species you’ll have to look closely at the species accounts on Wiki, they should have distribution info. ---
**Author:** ![OccamsTaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3ec8ea/32.png) [@OccamsTaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OccamsTaser)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/9 "2010-01-21T22:40:52Z")
I’m more of a snake guy, but if I had to guess, I might say a Savannah Monitor due to it’s pattern and shorter head. Savannah’s necks are usually shorter than in the drawing, but many of these old naturalist sketches tend to get proportions wrong. There are a lot of monitors! Good luck figuring this out! ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/10 "2010-01-21T22:57:33Z")
I’m not a lizard expert by any means, but if Wiki and your source for the document are to be believed, you can rule out a Komodo. Wiki states that “Komodo dragons were first recorded by Western scientists in 1910” while the [source page](http://bibliodyssey.blogspot.com/2009/06/cabinet-of-natural-curiosities.html) says that the plates are from “Volume One of ‘Locupletissimi Rerum Naturalium Thesauri’ by Albertus Seba, 1734, newly available from the Missouri Botanical Garden’s Botanicus website”. Knowing that Seba lived in Amsterdam in the early 1700’s might help narrow down some of the possibilities. that’s about all I can offer. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/11 "2010-01-21T23:46:37Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Maybe a [water monitor](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=water+monitor&aq=0&oq=water+moni&aqi=g1g-m3&start=0)? If it’s not my guess would be the smaller Clouded Monitor. [![](https://pictures.butlernature.com/laos/600/laos_0731.jpg) ](https://pictures.butlernature.com/laos/600/laos_0731.jpg) > **[Clouded Monitor - Varanus nebulosus](https://www.ecologyasia.com/verts/lizards/clouded_monitor.htm)** It’s hard to tell from that type of picture. The only real differences would be size, with the Clouded maxing out at 4-5 feet and the Water averaging that length and growing up to 10ft. If the other lizards are all to scale I’d go with a Clouded. (Unless it’s a juvenile, just to make it complicated.) The author being Dutch in the 1700’s doesn’t help much. Both of those have territory ranging all over SE Asia. Seba could have come across either of them any number of times. ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/12 "2010-01-22T04:45:46Z")
Wow, you guys are great, thanks so much! The clouded monitor does look similar, if only because this guy seems to have an extraordinarily long tail, and the tails on the water monitors look shorter. I’ll come back and post a link when I get the story written… [Quote=Rafe Hollister] Crotalus already has a genus named after him. [/quote] Right you are! I’m going to have to save the name for another character. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/13 "2010-01-22T07:22:03Z")
the tail is a bit too whip like but that probably just the artist rendition. the spots look like a young Asian Water monitor. [![](https://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z232/TheSnakeBabe/bambisafari.jpg) ](https://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z232/TheSnakeBabe/bambisafari.jpg) Hugs and Hissessss, Maria ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/14 "2010-01-22T08:08:55Z")
To me it looks like a [Black Goanna](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2150/2058969023_b7e7a2fd34.jpg). It seems too gracile to be a water monitor, and those dark rings on the underside of the animal are something I’ve only ever seen on [black goannas](http://www.reptilereview.com/yellowmon.jpg). The problem is that the black goanna is one of the most variable lizards in the world in term of colouration, ranging from a near solid black with paler underside, to leopard spotted individuals. But I’d be more inclined to say black goanna than water monitor. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/15 "2010-01-22T17:48:54Z")
That illustration is from Albertus Seba’s 1734 book, “Locupletissimi Rerum Naturalium Thesauri” (Volume One), which can be seen in digital format [here](http://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/dms/load/img/). That plate is on page 152 of the book (index #428 of the digitized copy). The description of that particular lizard is at index #431: “Lacerta, major, Tilcuetzpallin in Nova Hispania dicta, juxta Hernand:”. Interestingly, a very similar description is found [here](http://www.archive.org/stream/p1generalzoology03shawuoft/p1generalzoology03shawuoft_djvu.txt), wherein the creature is described as a “monitory lizard”, or “the monitor”. Unfortunately, it doesn’t get any more specific than that, though the location (“Nova Hispania”) may be helpful in pinning down the exact species. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/16 "2010-01-22T18:28:39Z")
I was wrong then. Nova Hispania would be Mexico, and from the text Seba says it came from South America. But despite calling it “The Monitor” it’s not one of those since they aren’t found in the Americas. Although that does explain why he put an iguana next to it. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/17 "2010-01-22T18:45:28Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > I was wrong then. Nova Hispania would be Mexico, and from the text Seba says it came from South America. But despite calling it “The Monitor” it’s not one of those since they aren’t found in the Americas. Although that does explain why he put an iguana next to it. :smack: Sorry, I missed the edit window. He’s describing a tegu, although I’m not sure what species exactly. His picture may not be entirely accurate to start with since Seba mentions they have several variations. > [@Seba](#): > > is marked with various streaks of the same colour, > the limbs with very numerous round spots, and the > tail with broad, distant transverse bands. In others > the spots forming the lateral bands are simple in- > stead of annular; and in others the annuli or > white rings are themselves composed of small > white spots, which are likewise often scattered > here and there over the black ground-colour. The > ground-colour in some, instead of being black, is > of a deep ferruginous brown. Tegu share many characteristics of monitor lizards so that would explain his title of “the monitor” as well. He describes it as having a gentle dispostion, something I know Argentinian Black and White Tegu are also noted for. A picture of an adult [![](http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/27969morning.jpg) ](http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/27969morning.jpg) Hatchlings > **[Red tail boa constrictor (Boa Constrictor Imperator) - Red Tail boa](http://www.redtailboa.net)** > > The red-tailed boa is a member of the Boidae family of snakes. The sub-species are simply called “boa constrictors but the dominate species is the ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/18 "2010-01-22T19:06:37Z")
I can’t get it to load now, but doesn’t the text say it came from eastern India (Indus Orientabilus)? Could be that the specimen he was working was from Mexico for whatever reason - maybe from a private collection? - while the home range is actually in India / Southeast Asia. I’m no good with Latin, so I can’t really read what he has to say about it ☹ ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reptile-fans-researchers-if-you-would/525863/19 "2010-07-09T05:20:07Z")
Sorry to resurrect this zombie thread, but I wanted to make good on my promise to link to the story when I finished it. In the end, I went with just “monitor” because the story ended up demanding less specificity than I thought it would, but all the details and info you all linked to really helped with the story and the art - thanks!! [Art and story](http://www.etsy.com/listing/51105106/lydia-and-her-lizard)