# Repub Ideas did NOT win, LIES did **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089 "2004-11-05T00:17:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/241 "2004-11-11T01:03:21Z")
That’s quite the impressive delurk there, **Mr. Biggles**. Well done! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/242 "2004-11-11T01:15:32Z")
Well, yes and no. Its kind of like the _Reader’s Digest_ version of roughly six months of posting, kind of mooshed together in one humongous post. Still the intent is commendable, and its always good to see another cite-freak, along the lines of the much admired, and currently rare, **Big Svin** and **Simon Moon** (both of whom better haul their asses back here toot sweet and get back in the fuckin’ game, goddammit!!..) Still, here’s your jersey, here’s your helmet, welcome to the Good Guys. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/243 "2004-11-11T02:11:20Z")
Welcome abour Mr. Biggles. Thanks for collecting all those cites, which I’m sure someone would have asked for sooner or later (and which I would be too lazy to document). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/244 "2004-11-11T02:36:12Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > In short who was the bigger, bolder, more egregious liar? Which one is the more disgusting of the two? > > I gave you what you wanted, now answer my questions. I already did. Way up there. [query]Not only “effectively” - I’ll make it entirely clear: of the two candidates, Bush’s ads were less accurate than Kerry’s. Or in plainer words, Bush’s ads lied more than Kerry’s did. [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/245 "2004-11-11T02:46:42Z")
Got it. Sorry, it got “lost in the noise” of so many posts. I’ll meet you half way - BOTH were lying, sometimes straight out their asses. It would be novel to see someone run on just the truth, but he / she would last maybe five minutes at the most. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/246 "2004-11-11T02:49:25Z")
I don’t really remember the 1992 election, and he was kind of irrelevant in the 1996 election, but didn’t Ross Perot try that? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/247 "2004-11-11T03:02:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I, on the other hand, am not only able to admit that Bush lied, but that Bush’s lies were more numerous than Kerry’s. Question: What actions have you taken to exercise your political power to chastise Bush for his numerous lies? Letters of complaint? Voting against him in a primary? Motions for impeachment, or censure? Vote against him in any form? Anything will do. I understand the analysis may still favor him over Kerry given your personal priorities, but surely, given your zeal for making people face the music, you have done **something** to show your disapproval of the deceit Bush has engaged in. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/248 "2004-11-11T04:52:36Z")
Holy fucking delurk **Mr Biggles**! Welcome to the SDMB. 😛 Great post. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/249 "2004-11-11T07:42:51Z")
I think I’m in love. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/250 "2004-11-11T11:39:37Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Question: What actions have you taken to exercise your political power to chastise Bush for his numerous lies? Letters of complaint? Voting against him in a primary? Motions for impeachment, or censure? Vote against him in any form? > > Anything will do. I understand the analysis may still favor him over Kerry given your personal priorities, but surely, given your zeal for making people face the music, you have done **something** to show your disapproval of the deceit Bush has engaged in. > [@SteveG1](#): > > Got it. Sorry, it got “lost in the noise” of so many posts. I’ll meet you half way - BOTH were lying, sometimes straight out their asses. It would be novel to see someone run on just the truth, but he / she would last maybe five minutes at the most. In an ideal world, **Mtgman** , I’d do something along the lines that you suggest – as I have in local races, where such suggestions have a prayer of actually infuencing events. At the national level, I do not believe that any such actions would be any more effective than a sudden attack from a soap bubble. See **SteveG1** ’s cogent, if brief, analysis above. I do have a zeal for making people face the music – but if I cannot, I cannot. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Biggles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@Mr.Biggles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Biggles)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/251 "2004-11-11T15:04:29Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It would be novel to see someone run on just the truth, but he / she would last maybe five minutes at the most. I wish ads for elections would be held to a higher standard. The public is being asked to make decisions that affect their country, not if something will get a stain out better. (Obviously, the stain is still in offic…errr, there). The way laws exist today the ability to cite lies in advertising is damn near impossible. But if the last election is any indication it’s that most people can’t handle the truth anyway. Oh, and I…ooops…incorrectly posted the statement “Kerry’s record has shown he wants to cut military.” as if it were mine. It was meant to be a quote from a Bush voter. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/252 "2004-11-11T19:19:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In an ideal world, **Mtgman** , I’d do something along the lines that you suggest – as I have in local races, where such suggestions have a prayer of actually infuencing events. At the national level, I do not believe that any such actions would be any more effective than a sudden attack from a soap bubble. See **SteveG1** ’s cogent, if brief, analysis above. > > I do have a zeal for making people face the music – but if I cannot, I cannot. If the mountain will not come to Mohammad then Mohammad should get up off his ass and go to the mountain. As a citizen in a democracy you will rarely, if ever, be in a position to be the controlling authority. This does not mean your only alternative is inaction. There are tons of actions, across the entire spectrum of political activity, which could be taken to express disapproval of dishonesty on the part of your elected representative. **SimonX** is very politically active within the Republican party to ensure those within who have reservations about aspects of the Bush administration know he, as a consitutent, shares those reservations and supports them if they wish to challenge the administration on these issues. If I gave a shit, as you clearly do, I would be doing something similar. But at this point in my life, much like Mr. Cheney, I have other priorities. About all the political capital I’m willing to spend these days is on local issues(where I am quite active actually), and my vote. And the occasional message on the SDMB 😉 Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/253 "2004-11-11T19:50:01Z")
If the people lead, the leaders will follow. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/254 "2004-11-12T13:23:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > At the national level, I do not believe that any such actions would be any more effective than a sudden attack from a soap bubble. So you choose instead to do exactly the opposite, voting for someone you acknowledge to be the _greater_ evil, gloat about it, and lament your powerlessness to do otherwise? > [@](#): > > I do have a zeal for making people face the music – but if I cannot, I cannot. A zeal excelled only by your zeal in refusing ever to face the music yourself. You’re part of the very problem you so solemnly decry. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/255 "2004-11-12T13:31:27Z")
**Bricker** never said Bush was the greater evil. He said he was a bigger liar. There’s an important distinction there that seems to be lost on you. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/256 "2004-11-12T13:38:30Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > **Bricker** never said Bush was the greater evil. He said he was a bigger liar. > > There’s an important distinction there that seems to be lost on you. Reread this whole thread. One step at a time. He has listed several reasons for voting for Bush, he has been turned toward the music on each of them, but has closed his ears and winced and tried to turn away each time. Fiscal policy and the “war on terrorism” are others. This is just one example. The fight against ignorance (his, and yours too for that matter, in this case) often has to be fought one trench at a time, and Bush’s being a liar is the trench in front of us - although perhaps he’s almost crossed it and you haven’t yet. Perhaps _you_ can more easily rationalize your own desire to be lied to and to support policies not connected with reality than our learned friend can? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/257 "2004-11-12T19:19:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Reread this whole thread. One step at a time. He has listed several reasons for voting for Bush, he has been turned toward the music on each of them, but has closed his ears and winced and tried to turn away each time. Fiscal policy and the “war on terrorism” are others. This is just one example. The fight against ignorance (his, and yours too for that matter, in this case) often has to be fought one trench at a time, and Bush’s being a liar is the trench in front of us - although perhaps he’s almost crossed it and you haven’t yet. Perhaps _you_ can more easily rationalize your own desire to be lied to and to support policies not connected with reality than our learned friend can? Nice, very nice. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/258 "2004-11-12T19:53:17Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > **Bricker** never said Bush was the greater evil. He said he was a bigger liar. If there’s something more evil than lying to _start a war,_ I don’t want to know what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/259 "2004-11-12T20:09:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So you choose instead to do exactly the opposite, voting for someone you acknowledge to be the _greater_ evil, gloat about it, and lament your powerlessness to do otherwise? > > A zeal excelled only by your zeal in refusing ever to face the music yourself. > > You’re part of the very problem you so solemnly decry. Never said Bush was the greater eveil. I said that of the two campaigns, Bush’s ads were more inaccurate than Kerry’s ads, or, more simply, of the two candidates, Bush lied more during the campaign. My vote for Bush stands because Bush’s record is consistent with what I want done. Bush has appointed strict constructionists to the federal bench. I have only to look back and see that. Kerry won’t do it – he admitted during the debate he would appoint SC justices that want to keep Roe v. Wade alive. Bush would appoint SC justices more favorably inclined to overturn Roe v. Wade. I want Roe v. Wade overturned. Why would I possibly vote for Kerry if I want Roe v. Wade overturned? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089/260 "2004-11-12T20:12:32Z")
Sweet. Back alley abortions for all! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repub-ideas-did-not-win-lies-did/273089.md?page=14)