# Republic of Texas **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 20, 2002, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republic-of-texas/109903 "2002-05-20T03:59:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republic-of-texas/109903/1 "2002-05-20T03:59:30Z")
I had dinner at a “Red River Roadhouse” in Springfield, VA this weekend. On the front of the menu was an essay explaining why Texas is not now nor has ever been a part of the United States of America. (Never mind that they had a 50-star flag hanging in the bar area.) The essay basically said: 1) Texas won its independence from Mexico in 1836 (true enough). 2) Texas was “annexed” in 1845, but was never formally made a state. 3) In 1861, Texas simply cancelled the annexation agreement as was their right. They did not illegally secede from the USA. 4) In 1870, a special law was passed that allowed Texas full voting rights in the US Congress, _but still nothing was resolved by Congress that made Texas a state._ To what degree are these arguements true? If truly true, would that mean that the acts of Texas-born presidents (LBJ and GWB) are null and void? Or is it all a ploy so that I’ll pay higher prices at Red River Roadhouse because they serve foreign food? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republic-of-texas/109903/2 "2002-05-20T04:13:56Z")
Here’s a brief chonology of Texas becoming a state: [http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/1845/](http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/1845/) Briefly, Texans voted for statehood in October of 1845. At the same time, Congress voted they should become a state, and the president signed the “Texas Admissions Act” at the end of December. The Governor was sworn in and the US Senators appointed in Feb. of 1846, and the members of the US house sworn in in March of 1848. In 1861, Texas considered what they did a Secession, appointing a Secession Commission, who wrote an Ordinance of Secession, and in the Ordinance of Secession, they said > [@](#): > > We, the People of the State of Texas, by Delegates in Convention assembled, do declare and ordain, that the Ordinance adopted by our Convention of Delegates, on the Fourth day of July, A.D. 1845, and afterwards ratified by us, under which the Republic of Texas was admitted into Union with other States and became a party to the compact styled “The Constitution of the United States of America” be, and is hereby repealed and annulled; and in their Declaration of Causes, passed at the same time, the Texans stated: > [@](#): > > The government of the United States, by certain joint resolutions, bearing date the 1st day of March, in the year A.D. 1845, proposed to the Republic of Texas, then a free, sovereign and independent nation, the annexation of the latter to the former as one of the co-equal States thereof, > > The people of Texas, by deputies in convention assembled, on the fourth day of July of the same year, assented to and accepted said proposals and formed a constitution for the proposed State, upon which on the 29th day of December in the same year, said State was formally admitted into the Confederated Union. Sp, they seemed to consider themselves a state. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republic-of-texas/109903/3 "2002-05-20T05:52:24Z")
The Supreme Court rejected this type of argument in a case shortly after the Civil War, [Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700, 703 (1868)](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=74&page=700#700). The provisional government of the state of Texas was suing some bond traders in the Supreme Court, to recover some bonds that the sescessionist government of the state had alienated. That raised the question whether the provisional government of Texas could sue under the Supreme Court’s original jurisdiction, which in turn raised the issue whether Texas was still a state of the Union. The Court held that Texas was a state, notwithstanding the attempt at secession and the fact that it was currently governed by a provisional government: > [@](#): > > The Constitution, in all its provisions, looks to an indestructible Union, composed of indestructible States. [74 U.S. 700, 726] When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. **The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration, or revocation, except through revolution, or through consent of the States.** So, Texas is a state. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republic-of-texas/109903/4 "2002-05-20T14:23:48Z")
OK, that’s more cute Texas bluster. If it quacks like a duck… The Congress has the power to admit states into the union and can and does change the method for doing so as time passes. But “Statehood” is not the result of a magical incantation that must be repeated in an exact manner for it to take effect. IANAL, but to me, a jurisdiction that is under US sovereignty; that has duly constituted for itself a government fo the republican form; that elects 2 federal Senators and a number of Representatives and Presidential Electors in accordance to the US Census apportionment, who are then duly seated and recognized in the exercise of their functions by Congress; and wherein the US’s taxes and tariffs are levied and collected; and wherein the Constitution of the United States (and the Acts of Congress and Treaties passed in compliance with said constitution) is recognized as Supreme Law of the Land, **is a “state of the union”** , whether or not the words “Let X be a state” show up anywhere in the Acts, Resolutions, ordinances or hastily-scribbled-notes-on-a-napkin involved in getting it to be that way. (This is reminiscent of the argument as to whether Ohio was not really admitted until the mid 20th Century. ) In any case, a Republic IS a “state” : an organized body politic. Four of the 50 “states of the union” style themselves “Commonwealth” w/o it affecting their condition. As far as I am concerned they could also style themselves Republic, Freehold, Electorate, or Sugar-dusted Jelly Donut and they would still be states (as long as the government is republican: sorry about any Hawaiian monarchists). ---
**Author:** ![Opengrave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/919ad9/32.png) [@Opengrave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opengrave)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republic-of-texas/109903/5 "2002-05-20T18:57:10Z")
I’m guessing Uncle Cecil is on the phone with Hank Hill right now trying to get **The Straight Dope**! NP: **The Black League** - _Ichor_ ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republic-of-texas/109903/6 "2002-05-20T20:48:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AWB \* > **I had dinner at a “Red River Roadhouse” in Springfield, VA this weekend. On the front of the menu was an essay explaining why Texas is not now nor has ever been a part of the United States of America. (Never mind that they had a 50-star flag hanging in the bar area.)** I have nothing to add except that if you’re in that neighborhood and planning to eat dinner, for God’s sake walk the 50 feet to the Hard Times Cafe instead. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republic-of-texas/109903/7 "2002-05-20T21:14:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AWB \* > \*\* > If truly true, would that mean that the acts of Texas-born presidents (LBJ and GWB) are null and void? > \*\* Even if true, the acts of LBJ, GHWB and GWB are all legal. Even if Texas is not a state, but a “territory” of the U.S., it’s residents are still natural-born citizens (provided, of course, that they were born there) much like people born in Puerto Rico today are natural born citizens. Any of them (provided they meet the other constitutional requirements) are eligible to run for the presidency. So, even if Texas were not a state (or Ohio, as tax-resisters would like to believe), the natural-born citizens of those states are eligible to become POTUS. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republic-of-texas/109903/8 "2002-05-21T00:43:28Z")
If Texas isn’t a state, isn’t this a neat way to get Bush out of office? You’d think more Democrats would be on the Texan Nationalist bandwagon if they weren’t complete loons. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republic-of-texas/109903/9 "2002-05-21T01:14:21Z")
Hard Times…mmmmmmmmmmmmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Mandarax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Mandarax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandarax)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republic-of-texas/109903/10 "2002-05-21T02:08:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\*Even if true, the acts of LBJ, GHWB and GWB are all legal. > \*\* Just to nitpick: LBJ and [Eisenhower](http://www.texasescapes.com/DEPARTMENTS/Guest_Columnists/East_Texas_all_things_historical/DenisonBirthPlaceOfPresident2AMD301.htm) were born in Texas, but [GHWB](http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/gb41.html) (Milton, Mass) and [GWB](http://gi.grolier.com/presidents/ea/bios/43pgwb.html) (New Haven, Conn) were not. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republic-of-texas/109903/11 "2002-05-21T02:29:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mandarax \* > \*\*Just to nitpick: LBJ and [Eisenhower](http://www.texasescapes.com/DEPARTMENTS/Guest_Columnists/East_Texas_all_things_historical/DenisonBirthPlaceOfPresident2AMD301.htm) were born in Texas, but [GHWB](http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/gb41.html) (Milton, Mass) and [GWB](http://gi.grolier.com/presidents/ea/bios/43pgwb.html) (New Haven, Conn) were not. \*\* ::MsRobyn clenches her jaw to keep from making a cheap shot about Bush pere and fils:: Ya know, I know the commercials say that Texas is like a whole 'nother country, but I always thought it was just a tourist slogan. Robin, who lives in Texas and would awfully surprised to learn she’s living in a foreign country. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republic-of-texas/109903/12 "2002-05-21T03:39:28Z")
I think the important lesson we’ve all learned here is that a table mat is not a good substitute for a public education.