# Republican attacks on election integrity take their toll **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 11, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911 "2023-07-11T19:57:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911/41 "2023-07-12T05:12:57Z")
> [@robby](#): > > > [@snowthx](#): > > > > If ever there was a greater irony, or better example of how the Republicans do stuff that is against their own interests, I would like to see it. > > How about attacking voting-by-mail during a pandemic? 😁 Indeed. About a week after the 2020 election, Georgia SoS Raffensperger made an announcement about Republicans who voted by mail in the primary and didn’t vote at all in the general. It seems there were about 25,000 of them, which is more than double Biden’s margin of victory in that state. I expect the numbers were similar in other swing states. In other words, Trump shot himself in the foot in that election. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911/42 "2023-07-12T06:24:37Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > we’re always at a disadvantage because we play clean and fair The irony – it burns. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911/43 "2023-07-12T12:32:48Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > About a week after the 2020 election, Georgia SoS Raffensperger made an announcement about Republicans who voted by mail in the primary and didn’t vote at all in the general. It seems there were about 25,000 of them, which is more than double Biden’s margin of victory in that state. Shhhh! Don’t say anything about that - remember, facts are the enemy here. If Republicans want to sit-out elections to own the libs, I will feel majorly owned (just dangling the bait out there). ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911/44 "2023-07-12T12:56:44Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > It seems there were about 25,000 of them, which is more than double Biden’s margin of victory in that state. > > I expect the numbers were similar in other swing states. In other words, Trump shot himself in the foot in that election. Here is an article on this: > **[GOP secretary of state: Trump "would have won" Georgia, but he “suppressed”...](https://www.salon.com/2020/11/18/gop-secretary-of-state-trump-would-have-won-georgia-but-he-suppressed-republican-mail-in-votes/)** > > "He would have won by 10,000 votes," Brad Raffenspeger says. "He actually . . . suppressed his own voting base" The brief TV statement, at the heart of the article above, seems based on non-public linking, at the individual voter level, of database tables for different elections. Raffensperger did not repeat the claim in his [USA Today op-ed a few days later](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2020/11/25/georgia-secretary-of-state-election-integrity-2020-column/6407586002/), or anywhere else I can find. The first follow-up question the TV reporter should have asked was how many Democrats voted in the primary and not in the general election. But let’s say the missing Democratic number, that should be subtracted from the 24,000, was zero. It wasn’t, if only because some voters died between the primary and general election. But let’s just say zero, and say that the proportions were the same in every state. By my calculation, Trump flips Georgia and Arizona but still is behind in the electoral college. Do I really believe in taking Raffensperger’s TV claim literally, with no opportunity to pin down exactly how the analysis was run? No. Is saying that elections are rigged a high risk strategy? Yes. I expect it increases your campaign contributions a bit at the cost of some votes. I advise Biden to avoid it. But saying that the attack on election integrity lost Trump the White House is an extraordinary claim requiring more evidence. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911/45 "2023-07-12T14:53:18Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > If you didn’t like the outcome, it had to be rigged. đŸ€Ș Nurses are _supposed_ to be intelligent. A charitable reading of what she said might be that she didn’t like all the FUD and whatever surrounding the election, and that it reduced her confidence in the election. Which is kind of the point of all that BS from the Right- make people question the veracity- a lot of people think “where there’s smoke, there must be fire” is true, but then don’t account for the possibility of haze, fog, dust, or in this case a theatrical smoke machine hidden just out of sight. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911/46 "2023-07-12T15:35:11Z")
Exactly. They don’t have to prove the election was rigged, which is hard. They just have to make suggestions and create doubt, which is easy. Especially easy among people who are either not paying very much attention, or are getting their information from just one source. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911/47 "2023-07-12T15:55:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The (D) candidate could have been Biden, Hillary, Buttigieg, whoever. What mattered was that there was a nefarious network of people working to make it happen. A network so nefarious, so devious, that while they were busy cheating to put Biden in office they managed to lose a Democratic majority in the House and didn’t get anywhere close to a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. To me, that’s the obvious explanation of cheating not happening - if you’re gonna cheat, make sure you can actually govern. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911/48 "2023-07-12T17:08:37Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What I saw from an LSU Tigers right-leaning message board was that “we could cheat too if we wanted to but we had the integrity not to, so we’re always at a disadvantage because we play clean and fair.” (paraphrased) The problem is that there are a number of these people who hold a similar view but conclude, “They are cheating so we should too, its the only way to keep things fair”. From this [article](https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-were-only-trump-supporters-arrested-2020-election-fraud-1730592) > Clearly, the balance of evidence shows that the overwhelming majority of voter fraud cases was found to involve Trump supporters. Probably because they accepted the fallacy that voter fraud was trivially easy and everyone did it. Or they did it to “test the system” and found that the system works just fine. This wasn’t helped by Trump actually encouraging his supporters to [vote twice](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/trump-tells-supporters-vote-twice-ensure-their-precious-vote-has-n1239194). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911/49 "2023-07-12T19:02:42Z")
It’s that same authoritarian business where their opponents are simultaneously diabolically devious and competent as well as hilariously and ridiculously incompetent, depending on the needs of the rhetoric. Case in point- the Democrats have the purported ability to orchestrate and engineer this whole shady election rigging business across the _entire country_ and get everyone on the same page, yet they’re supposedly comically incompetent and corrupt when it comes to actually governing and making policy. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911/50 "2023-07-12T19:46:40Z")
> [@bump](#): > > the Democrats have the purported ability to orchestrate and engineer this whole shady election rigging business across the _entire country_ and get everyone on the same page, yet they’re supposedly comically incompetent and corrupt when it comes to actually governing and making policy. And, ironically, the Republicans _do_ have a fairly cohesive national election-rigging strategy, and they’re _actually_ comically incompetent and corrupt when it comes to governing and making policy. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911/51 "2023-07-12T20:35:45Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > they’re _actually_ comically incompetent and corrupt when it comes to governing and making policy. And hopefully election-rigging but that remains to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911/52 "2023-07-12T20:39:01Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > _“I don’t vote at all," he said. "I think it only adds credibility to the system if you participate.”_ > > The Republican attacks on election integrity appear to be backfiring, but they’re still attacking full-steam ahead. If ever there was a greater irony, or better example of how the Republicans do stuff that is against their own interests, I would like to see it. Except that the GOP has lost the demographics battle. They are sure that the less people vote, the better it is for them. The Kremlin back them up in this, which is why you see lost of propaganda “both parties are the same” “dont bother to vote”, etc. > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > But according to the AP poll, Republicans and Independents are almost identical in distrust of election results. So this is not really just about Trump supporters. Right. The GOP is just trying to get the indys and the undecideds to not vote, or vote 3rd party. It worked in 2016, didnt it? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911/53 "2023-07-12T21:43:30Z")
> [@bump](#): > > > [@Jackmannii](#): > > > > If you didn’t like the outcome, it had to be rigged. đŸ€Ș Nurses are _supposed_ to be intelligent. > > A charitable reading of what she said might be that she didn’t like all the FUD and whatever surrounding the election, and that it reduced her confidence in the election. > > Which is kind of the point of all that BS from the Right- make people question the veracity- a lot of people think “where there’s smoke, there must be fire” is true, but then don’t account for the possibility of haze, fog, dust, or in this case a theatrical smoke machine hidden just out of sight. > [@snowthx](#): > > Exactly. They don’t have to prove the election was rigged, which is hard. They just have to make suggestions and create doubt, which is easy. Especially easy among people who are either not paying very much attention, or are getting their information from just one source. This is totally the point of the whole Reactionary Wacko Traitor election denial. Their sympathizers aren’t necessarily certain the election was stolen. But they’re certain they’re not certain it wasn’t. It’s become an article of faith that elections are stealable and in fact are stolen often enough to matter. And all this is straight out of the Kremlin’s playbook. If you can destroy the faith that there _is_ such a thing as actual truth or trustworthiness in anything, pretty quickly you have a bunch of cynical nihilist people who totally do not buy the official version of anything. Which makes it very very easy to sell them any other version of everything. A pithy aphorism on point: > If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-attacks-on-election-integrity-take-their-toll/986911.md?page=2)