# Republican Debate 10/18 thread \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 18, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077 "2011-10-18T23:19:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/21 "2011-10-20T00:45:06Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Lowest income households probably don’t pay federal income taxes after all the rebates/refunds, so that alone goes from 0 up to 9%. Plus they spend a lot more money on consumables and will see the 9% sales tax. The working poor right now by and largely probably only pay FICA taxes of about 7.65%. I don’t know if any of that money is rebated on tax returns. > > I don’t know the exact figures. But they would see their federal tax rate double at the very least. Plus the 9-9-9 plan doesn’t raise anywhere near enough money, so they’d have to drastically cut programs and/or raise taxes to avoid massive debts. > > There is no way Cains plan would ever become reality in congress. > > FWIW, pretty much any time the GOP proposes an economic or tax policy, once you look at the details you will find it probably lowers taxes on the wealthy and corporations but raises them on everyone else. It is an unofficial law of GOP economics since the GOP has been taken over by Social Darwinists and plutocrats. I knew the 9-9-9 plan would do the same before this debate even came up. No, look at Huntsman’s plan for example. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/22 "2011-10-20T00:56:29Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > No, look at Huntsman’s plan for example. Right, but Huntsman doesn’t have a chance of getting elected. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/23 "2011-10-20T01:15:56Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > No, look at Huntsman’s plan for example. According to his [website](http://www.jon2012.com/issues/jobs-economy-tax-reform), Huntsmans plan is to elimanate tax on Capital Gains, lower the Corporate tax rate, eliminate corporate taxes on overseas profits, drop the top tax rate by a third and let overseas profits that have already been earned be repatriated without taxation. He makes up (some of) the difference in revenue by closing tax expenditures, the largest of which are targeted at the middle class. I suspect that more or less meets **Wesley Clarke’s** statement “FWIW, pretty much any time the GOP proposes an economic or tax policy, once you look at the details you will find it probably lowers taxes on the wealthy and corporations but raises them on everyone else”. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/24 "2011-10-20T01:18:14Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Right, but Huntsman doesn’t have a chance of getting elected. All of the other candidates could die in a freak zoo accident caused by Obamacare, while Huntman survives (less one arm) after heroically rescuing Nancy Reagan from a tiger. ---
**Author:** ![Da\_Mikster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Da\_Mikster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Da_Mikster)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/25 "2011-10-20T01:25:39Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > All of the other candidates could die in a freak zoo accident caused by Obamacare, while Huntman survives (less one arm) after heroically rescuing Nancy Reagan from a tiger. I LIKE Huntsman, or at least he’s by far the best of a bad lot… but sadly, that assessment is pretty close. … The inmates are running the asylum and have declared sanity to be a capital offense. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/26 "2011-10-20T04:09:28Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > All of the other candidates could die in a freak zoo accident If only the debates had been in [Ohio](http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/19/us/ohio-animals-on-loose/index.html?hpt=hp_bn2)… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/27 "2011-10-20T05:03:08Z")
> [@](#): > > All of the other candidates could die in a freak zoo accident caused by Obamacare, while Huntman survives (less one arm) after heroically rescuing Nancy Reagan from a tiger. Just so long as it’s not his right arm he loses. If he had only a left arm, that’d be yet more proof that he was a RINO and unfit to be elected, and the Republicans would write-in Joe the Plumber. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/28 "2011-10-20T15:40:14Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Nah, I’m just kidding. Once we slash corporate taxes that will somehow solve the problem of low demand and businesses will start hiring again. > . Its really easy, once we eliminate the minimum wage, drop all regulations on business, eliminate the safety net and eliminate the middle class, there will be no need to outsource to China since people will be willing to work for 50 cents an hour with no worker protection right here in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/29 "2011-10-20T19:12:17Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > When Cain repeated that the reason that the people are poor is their own fault and everybody should be rich, the audience cheered loudly. Who are these people ? There are 5 people for every job. It is all their fault that jobs got offshored? It is all their fault that they are poor. > Does anybody believe that any person can and should become rich? What a crappy grasp of reality. Yes, there are quite a few of them Case in point: Joe the Plumber. Worried more about his fantasy of someday owning the plumbing company he worked for then his financial reality right now. They think they will one day be filthy rich and that the only thing holding them back is the government and taxes. This is the crowd who love 9-9-9 even though it is guaranteed to raise their taxes and prevent them from ever being rich. These are the people who bitch about paying property tax, but spend a paycheck on lotto tickets. They are out there _and they vote!_ ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/30 "2011-10-21T00:01:11Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Its really easy, once we eliminate the minimum wage, drop all regulations on business, eliminate the safety net and eliminate the middle class, there will be no need to outsource to China since people will be willing to work for 50 cents an hour with no worker protection right here in the US. Strawman…strawman. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/31 "2011-10-21T00:29:27Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Yes, there are quite a few of them Case in point: Joe the Plumber. Worried more about his fantasy of someday owning the plumbing company he worked for then his financial reality right now. > > They think they will one day be filthy rich and that the only thing holding them back is the government and taxes. This is the crowd who love 9-9-9 even though it is guaranteed to raise their taxes and prevent them from ever being rich. These are the people who bitch about paying property tax, but spend a paycheck on lotto tickets. > > They are out there _and they vote!_ The people who love 9-9-9 generally aren’t informed enough to understand their taxes will go up, which isn’t a coincidence I’m sure. I haven’t met one supporter who understands that it is a regressive tax. To be fair I’ve only met 3 or 4 proponents of it. I’d like to meet one who understands his taxes would go up $4000 a year while the wealthy would see massive tax cuts and still supports it though. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/32 "2011-10-21T00:46:56Z")
Nevermind. Mistook somebody elses post for my own. ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/33 "2011-10-21T00:48:27Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Strawman…strawman. :rolleyes: That Herman Cain ‘Strawman’ has gotten a bit stronger: [Fox: Herman Cain jobs plan to include proposal for abolishing minimum wage in ‘Opportunity Zones’](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/20/1028481/-Fox:-Herman-Cain-jobs-plan-to-include-proposal-for-abolishing-minimum-wage-in-Opportunity-Zones?via=blog_1#comments). Check out that \*\*Fox News \*\*screengrab > [@](#): > > Cain’s “Opportunity Zones” > \*Abolish minimum wage laws > \*Institute school choice for parents > \*Establish “Right To Work” conditions ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/34 "2011-10-21T14:29:44Z")
what are "Right To Work conditions "? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/35 "2011-10-21T14:36:33Z")
Cain failed miserably in defending 999. It is as stupid as suggesting all bills should be 3 pages or less. Cain can not be taken seriously. He is a flavor of the month candidate. His time is over. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/36 "2011-10-21T16:49:03Z")
“Right to work” means that you don’t have the right to work. ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/37 "2011-10-21T17:00:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > “Right to work” means that you don’t have the right to work. do you want me ask again in GQ? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/38 "2011-10-21T17:12:35Z")
> [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > what are "Right To Work conditions "? Its a set of laws that strongly limit what labor Unions can do. ---
**Author:** ![Da\_Mikster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Da\_Mikster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Da_Mikster)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/39 "2011-10-21T20:43:39Z")
> [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > what are "Right To Work conditions "? My brother lives in a “right to work” state, in practice his experience has been - First, you bust your hump and earn a raise, then next some yahoo comes in off the street and says, “I’ll do that job for $X less”, and the boss lets you go and hire him… because the yahoo has the **right** to work… Which has usually been promptly followed by the yahoo deciding he needs a month off to “go crabbing” or some such shit, and the boss calling my brother asking him to come back at whatever rate the underbid was… How this benefits the average worker, I’m not sure… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077/40 "2011-10-21T20:49:02Z")
That is the GQ answer. So-called “right to work” laws mean that employers can fire anyone they want for almost any reason they want. In other words, the folks they can easily fire (i.e., everyone) do not have a right to work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-debate-10-18-thread-edited-title/600077.md?page=3)