# Republican Fanboys and the Bands that Hate Them **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 17, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815 "2012-08-17T20:15:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/121 "2012-08-23T20:25:43Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > …raising these kinds of questions unnecessarily might be an unforced error for a politician seeking national office. Are you kidding? Do you think even one vote is going to be influenced, either way, by that off-hand remark by some journalist? And again, let’s note that we have no idea who did the “raising” here. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/122 "2012-08-23T20:43:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you kidding? Do you think even one vote is going to be influenced, either way, by that off-hand remark by some journalist? As I said upthread, nah. But if, over the next few weeks, a few more unforced errors happen - or happen \*at \*Ryan, like the Legitimate Rape idiot who is focusing attention on Ryan’s anti-abortion positions and playing into the Democrats’ spin that the Republicans are waging a “War on Women” right when he is trying to shape his national image - then they could add up… ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/123 "2012-08-23T20:47:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you kidding? Do you think even one vote is going to be influenced, either way, by that off-hand remark by some journalist? > > And again, let’s note that we have no idea who did the “raising” here. First, I have no idea what really influences peoples’ votes. People who study voting behavior night and day hardly do, either. You can say that almost no individual issue is pivotal, but that hardly matters. When stuff accumulates over time, minds change. You keep asserting that this is just one throwaway line from the NYT of uncertain provenance. It’s not. He clarified it when he talked to CNN. He had it listed on his FB page. Everyone conceals their tastes from time to time depending on the audience, especially when no one is going to try to verify their claims. Why he didn’t is a fair question, your attempts to minimize nonwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/124 "2012-08-23T20:52:20Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > That’s a solid piece of lyrics right there. The critique of the right wing values lobby is obvious. The line itself suggests a nursery rhyme, “ring around the rosies, a pocket full of posies,” commonly (if wrongly) understood to be a reference to the bubonic plague. Shells, standing in for money, are _empty_. So in one line there is a plainspoken critique of the moral majority that evokes its infectiousness and sterility at the same time. This is anything but undecipherable. Dude, “shells” isn’t referring to money, it’s referring to ammunition. A couple snippets in context: > [@RATM](#): > > They rally round the family! With a pocket full of shells > Weapons not food, not homes, not shoes > Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal > \*\* > \\*\* > > They don’t gotta burn the books they just remove 'em > While arms warehouses fill as quick as the cells > Rally round the family, pockets full of shells > [@John\_Mace](#): > > There is no article where he “describes his fan status”. There is no quote from Ryan. We don’t know who the source of this information was. We don’t know when this information was found. > > There is no “outing”, no secret message or any evidence of him trying to curry favor because of this. I linked to the original article on the 2nd page of this thread and pointed out that HuffPo erred in their characterization of RATM being his “favorite band”. Here it is again: > > That’s it. That’s all there is. > > Now, if you want to go all Talmudic Scholar on that one sentence, which is part of very long article btw, you’re certainly free to do so. But let’s keep in mind what the actual source material is. According to [this CNN article](http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/16/politics/ryan-music-taste/index.html), the source was [Ryan’s Facebook page](https://www.facebook.com/reppaulryan/info), where he lists some of his favorite music. It appears that RATM has now been edited out, leaving: \*“Led Zeppelin, Grateful Dead, Metallica, Beethoven, Hank Williams, Jr., and more” \*ETA: Bah, partially ninja’ed \ ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/125 "2012-08-23T20:55:05Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Dude, “shells” isn’t referring to money, it’s referring to ammunition. > \ > \*ETA: Bah, partially ninja’ed \ And also whooshed. \*\*Maeglin \*\*was kidding with that academic analysis… ---
**Author:** ![Imago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@Imago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imago)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/126 "2012-08-23T20:58:11Z")
> [@Rhaegar](#): > > For every George Clooney, Jane Fonda and Barbara Streisand out there, you have a Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan who clam up whenever the topic gets too controversial to avoid alienating any fans. I hate that. I’d rather admire work done by someone honest whose politics I hate than by someone whose politics I _might_ hate if they dared mention them. I guess it’s supposed to come off as being inclusive or professional but really I see it as the exact opposite. > [@lavenderviolet](#): > > Or even country music! How _anyone_ can enjoy country music is beyond me. As for Paul Ryan, seems to me like a political fumble of some sort, if I had to guess, but it’s currently filed in my “who gives a care” pile. How important are questions about entertainment to American politics? ETA: > [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Anyway, Ryan strikes me as a Nickelback fan. :eek: The only thing in the world that might possibly be a bigger problem than his politics. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/127 "2012-08-23T20:59:43Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Dude, “shells” isn’t referring to money, it’s referring to ammunition. A couple snippets in context: That doesn’t make it any harder to understand. Shells are still empty, too. It makes the line even more obvious, so I am doubly unsure of the source of **puddleglum’s** confusion. I suppose I should have used a smiley. I usually get paid for this sort of work. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/128 "2012-08-23T21:26:43Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > nm… No, that’s not RATM, that’s Nirvana. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/129 "2012-08-24T02:27:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There is no article where he “describes his fan status”. There is no quote from Ryan. We don’t know who the source of this information was. We don’t know when this information was found. Well, now we do. His own Facebook page and a CNN interview. Though I abhor his politics, I think it’s cool that someone in my age group is in play for one of the highest offices in the land, and he’s not parroting the “Beatles/Beach Boys” that so many Boomers have proffered as their safe, politically neutral choices. (And there’s nothing wrong with liking either the BBs or Beatles, but let’s be honest, I’m sure many politicos trot them out to appeal to their peers.) Having said that… it does speak to this dissonance that conservatives have to navigate. I can’t think of a band that I have to ignore their politics to enjoy. Sure, Elvis Costello said some nasty stuff about Ray Charles once. I like a Megadeth song or two but I could go a lifetime without hearing it again. Outside of that, I actually like many bands even more because of their politics. The Clash playing Rock Against Racism after Clapton endorsed Enoch Powell. Living Colour founding the Black Rock Musicians Collective. The Smiths and Billy Bragg touring with Red Wedge in the 80s. The Police and U2 on the Conspiracy of Hope tour for Amnesty International. Midnight Oil with their “Sorry” suits at the Sydney Olympic Games. Ryan embracing RATM strikes me as odd. I don’t think he’s going to lose votes over it; everyone knows that VPs aren’t worth a bucket of warm spit in the electoral big picture. But he strikes me as a smart guy and a thinker. What was he thinking when he heard “Bulls on Parade” and “Sleep Now in the Fire?” Did he reconcile it at all, or just bang his head? I’d actually like to hear him talk about it. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/130 "2012-08-24T16:58:55Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Having said that… it does speak to this dissonance that conservatives have to navigate. I can’t think of a band that I have to ignore their politics to enjoy. Sure, Elvis Costello said some nasty stuff about Ray Charles once. I like a Megadeth song or two but I could go a lifetime without hearing it again. Outside of that, I actually like many bands even more because of their politics. The Clash playing Rock Against Racism after Clapton endorsed Enoch Powell. Living Colour founding the Black Rock Musicians Collective. The Smiths and Billy Bragg touring with Red Wedge in the 80s. The Police and U2 on the Conspiracy of Hope tour for Amnesty International. Midnight Oil with their “Sorry” suits at the Sydney Olympic Games. > > Ryan embracing RATM strikes me as odd. I don’t think he’s going to lose votes over it; everyone knows that VPs aren’t worth a bucket of warm spit in the electoral big picture. But he strikes me as a smart guy and a thinker. What was he thinking when he heard “Bulls on Parade” and “Sleep Now in the Fire?” Did he reconcile it at all, or just bang his head? I’d actually like to hear him talk about it. This shows a misunderstanding of what conservatism is. As H. Stuart Hughes said, and Russell Kirk popularized “Conservatism is not an ideology, it is the negation of ideology”. Thus we do not have to justify our taste in art, music, or food by our politics. To a conservative politics belongs in the political sphere and does not need to infect other spheres. Thus as a conservative I can like “Roger and Me” because it is funny and not feel any dissonance. I can enjoy 60s folk music and the political stupidity of the lyrics is something to chuckle at, not be outraged at. A liberal can turn paper or plastic into a political question, because to them the personal is political. A conservative does not have to worry about whether someone is politically correct, but only whether what they produce is enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/131 "2012-08-24T17:48:07Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > This shows a misunderstanding of what conservatism is. As H. Stuart Hughes said, and Russell Kirk popularized “Conservatism is not an ideology, it is the negation of ideology”. Thus we do not have to justify our taste in art, music, or food by our politics. To a conservative politics belongs in the political sphere and does not need to infect other spheres. Thus as a conservative I can like “Roger and Me” because it is funny and not feel any dissonance. I can enjoy 60s folk music and the political stupidity of the lyrics is something to chuckle at, not be outraged at. A liberal can turn paper or plastic into a political question, because to them the personal is political. A conservative does not have to worry about whether someone is politically correct, but only whether what they produce is enjoyable. Haha! This whoosh is even better than your last one! Ddamn you’re funny! Mind, you’re not Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there funny, but still… ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/132 "2012-08-26T06:30:08Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > This shows a misunderstanding of what conservatism is. As H. Stuart Hughes said, and Russell Kirk popularized “Conservatism is not an ideology, it is the negation of ideology”. Thus we do not have to justify our taste in art, music, or food by our politics. To a conservative politics belongs in the political sphere and does not need to infect other spheres. Thus as a conservative I can like “Roger and Me” because it is funny and not feel any dissonance. I can enjoy 60s folk music and the political stupidity of the lyrics is something to chuckle at, not be outraged at. A liberal can turn paper or plastic into a political question, because to them the personal is political. A conservative does not have to worry about whether someone is politically correct, but only whether what they produce is enjoyable. This… is not how most conservatives I know would describe themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/133 "2012-08-26T13:28:12Z")
Until this thread I didn’t know I was only supposed to like country music. Thanks for putting me on the right track. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/134 "2012-08-26T14:05:48Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Younger than the average GOP voter, that is. Well, I’d probably put the average RATM fan as somewhere between 25 and 35, possibly higher on the low end there. At 30, I’m the demographic that was listening on the radio 10-15 years ago, not the youngest voters these days. As one of the tags on Lithium (a SiriusXM channel) runs: “You used to rage against the machine. Now you rage against the washing machine” (with a woman singing part of Bombtrack at the end.) I agree it’s possible to listen to music and not agree with (or even care about) all the beliefs of the creators. But it still just seems funny. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815/135 "2012-08-26T15:05:20Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Until this thread I didn’t know I was only supposed to like country music. Thanks for putting me on the right track. Who said that and who do you think you are thanking? Like whatever you want; be happy. **puddleglum** - that’s hilarious,'cause humans are _excellent_ at compartmentalizing stuff like that. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-fanboys-and-the-bands-that-hate-them/631815.md?page=6)