# Republican “migrants stunt” **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 16, 2022, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656 "2022-09-16T08:04:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/261 "2022-09-22T14:57:22Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > If Americans want to ensure that only those legally allowed to work worked, one way to accomplish that would involve a national ID card, issued to all citizens, permanent residents and visa holders. It might use biometrics to verify that it’s being used by the intended person; the government of India implemented such a system to over a billion people so perhaps they can be consulted for advice. I have a better idea. Universal healthcare. Available to all citizens, as well as certain permanent residents and visa holders. Part of obtaining permanent resident status or receiving a visa would be satisfying the requirements for payment of medical bills, either by private insurance coverage or a reciprocal agreement between the US and applicants government’s UHC system. You get sick or injured, you get treated. If you are a citizen, your UHC coverage pays the bill. If you’re a resident alien or visa holder, the US is either reimbursed by your home country’s system, or by the private insurance required for receiving resident status or your visa. Not a legal resident? You get treated, but now you owe the US government for your care. Can’t pay? Well, since you have no insurance and no legal right to be in this country, you get deported (IMHO, it would be cruel to imprison someone for debts incurred due to illness, injury, or accident). When you are deported, you are informed in no uncertain terms that application for entry into the US will be denied until your bill is paid. Illegal entry to avoid payment is a crime against the US Treasury and will result in jail time. Solve two problems with one act. You want to immigrate here legally? Sure, show that you will be a contributing member of society and that the cost of your healthcare is covered, come on. Want to come here to go to school? Sure, show that you can pay tuition, pass the courses, and that your healthcare is covered and all is good. Want to simply work here for a limited time and return home? Well, you get the idea. ETA: Typo ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/262 "2022-09-22T15:54:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Well, I don’t think that sweatshop conditions should be allowed in any workplace, so that’s where I would be happy to punish the employer, but I don’t know that it’s really fair to punish the employer for being lied to by an employee. I agree it’s not fair to punish the employer for being lied to by the employees - but there are plenty of situations where the employers weren’t lied to. They either didn’t ask or outright prefer to hire the undocumented because it is easier to exploit them - you can’t scare people who are working legally by threatening to call immigration. In some cases, the employer even provides the false information to be used for eVerify ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/263 "2022-09-22T16:18:40Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > They either didn’t ask or outright prefer to hire the undocumented because it is easier to exploit them If they didn’t fill out the I-9, then that is already against employment law. The punishments for not having that filled out are harsh enough already. I know employers who have been hit with thousands of dollars of fines, not because their employees were illegal, but because they weren’t diligent with their paperwork. I pay a third party to come in and inspect my I-9’s every 6 months to make sure that I am compliant, and don’t get hit by fines. Not sure what you are wanting to do there to make it more harsh, without punishing innocent small employers even more than they already are. > [@doreen](#): > > In some cases, the employer even provides the false information to be used for eVerify And that’s fraud and possibly conspiracy, which is a crime itself as well. I have no problem with prosecuting employers engaged in such. What I _do_ have a problem with is going after employers who have accepted documents presented in good faith, or leaving employees left with no recourse if they are mistakenly flagged. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/264 "2022-09-22T21:22:21Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > If Americans want to ensure that only those legally allowed to work worked, one way to accomplish that would involve a national ID card, issued to all citizens, permanent residents and visa holders. (in strong German accent, by a dude in a black leather trench coat) _“Your Papers please”_. Not to mention if the GOP gets control, they will make the card so hard to get by minorities, no fair election will ever occur again. A terrible, terrible idea. Personally, I don’t care if “illegals” pick strawberries or clean hotel rooms… no, I _do_ care, I like to see those necessary jobs get done, and Americans can’t or won’t do them. I worked on a migrant farm worker project and those people (likely half of whom were illegals) were super hard working and not “bad hombres”. > [@Folacin](#): > > And you could use it as voter ID. Of course, that would make it easy to vote, so another reason it will never happen. Unless the Republicans were running it. > [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > I have a better idea. Universal healthcare. Available to all citizens, as well as certain permanent residents and visa holders. I have an even better idea-Universal healthcare. Available to all _humans._ ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/265 "2022-09-22T22:25:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > If Americans want to ensure that only those legally allowed to work worked, one way to accomplish that would involve a national ID card, issued to all citizens, permanent residents and visa holders. > > (in strong German accent, by a dude in a black leather trench coat) _“Your Papers please”_. Not to mention if the GOP gets control, they will make the card so hard to get by minorities, no fair election will ever occur again. A terrible, terrible idea. No, national ID cards work only if there is no problem obtaining them. And I’m not saying they’re a good idea, just that they would go a long way toward preventing employing those not legally allowed to work in the country. Or at least not employing them aboveboard. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/266 "2022-09-22T23:11:13Z")
The migrants stunt was so godawful that even Jared Kushner is speaking out against it. I guess it’s true what they say about broken clocks. > **[Kushner criticizes DeSantis’s migrants flights: ‘Have to remember that these...](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kushner-criticizes-desantis-e2-80-99s-migrants-flights-e2-80-98have-to-remember-that-these-are-human-beings-e2-80-99/ar-AA128xUE)** > > Former White House adviser Jared Kushner called the move by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) to send migrants from the southern border to Martha’s Vineyard, Mass., in protest of Biden’s immigration po… ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/267 "2022-09-22T23:45:34Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Not a legal resident? You get treated, but now you owe the US government for your care. Can’t pay? Well, since you have no insurance and no legal right to be in this country, you get deported . . . This is an incentive to avoid treatment for communicable diseases. But I’m not here to jump on you. Every comprehensive immigration policy has big moral and practical problems. Every one. You can take the position that, in the real world, a politically possible shift in the direction of immigration leniency will always be an improvement. That close to my position. And it’s dependent on there being other people pushing against open borders. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/268 "2022-09-22T23:54:16Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Ideally, existing immigrants should be amnestied, the legal immigration quota should be maybe four times higher… Spoken like someone who doesn’t know what the quota is for the unskilled laborers who do most of the agricultural work. Here’s a hint: Making it “four times higher” wouldn’t make any difference at all. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/269 "2022-09-23T04:16:56Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > No, national ID cards work only if there is no problem obtaining them. Which means only under a Democratic Congress and President. Under a GOP one- not so much. So since I do not think you or anyone can _guarantee_ the GOP will never, _ever_ again have such control, the idea is- as I said- _A terrible, terrible idea._ ---
**Author:** ![Pythonette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9a140/32.png) [@Pythonette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pythonette)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/270 "2022-09-23T06:47:38Z")
A cruel hoax perpetrated on asylum-seekers–the same “reverse Freedom Rides” BS they pulled on black families in the 60s. If they’re so concerned about the undocumented flooding into the country, they should pay attention to the ports, not the borders. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/271 "2022-09-23T16:53:55Z")
> [@Pythonette](#): > > A cruel hoax perpetrated on asylum-seekers–the same “reverse Freedom Rides” BS they pulled on black families in the 60s. Thank you for pointing that out…I guess the same sort of people are up to the same sort of hijinks… > **[Reverse Freedom Rides](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Freedom_Rides)** > > Reverse Freedom Rides were attempts in 1962 by segregationists in the Southern United States to send African Americans from southern cities to mostly northern, and some western, cities by bus. They were given free one-way bus tickets, and were promised guaranteed high-paying jobs and free housing. Those promises were intended to lure African Americans in. In reality, there was no guaranteed free housing or jobs waiting for them. Some of those arriving were able to find work; most could n The R... ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/272 "2022-09-23T18:52:03Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > The migrants stunt was so godawful that even Jared Kushner is speaking out against it. I guess it’s true what they say about broken clocks. Or Jared, whose political career is tied to Trump, recognizes that DeSantis has gotten a little to big for his britches and been elevated from Trump supporter to rival. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/273 "2022-09-24T12:52:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I think they could be, but are they legally allowed to work while their cases are pending? Yes. That’s the short answer. For a more complete answer there are various conditions and qualifications before these people can get a work permit, but the vast majority of them will be able to legally work in the US. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > If not, then they are by definition going to need to be using services, and chances are, they will end up being deported and the communities that supported them will not get the benefit of their work. In recent years (outside of the the Trump administration during covid) the eventual rejection rate for this category of migrants runs about 60%. Nonetheless, until their cases are decided these people are legally allowed to live and work in the US. The fact that their cases often take many years to decide is on us and our dysfunctional immigration system, not the asylum seekers who are complying with the rules. > [@ekedolphin](#): > > The migrants stunt was so godawful that even Jared Kushner is speaking out against it. I guess it’s true what they say about broken clocks. > > [MSN](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kushner-criticizes-desantis-e2-80-99s-migrants-flights-e2-80-98have-to-remember-that-these-are-human-beings-e2-80-99/ar-AA128xUE) Have to remember that Kushner is on Team Trump - discrediting Ron DeSantis benefits his team. It’s not so much that Kushner gives a damn about the migrants as he sees a way to gain political advantage for his father-in-law. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/274 "2022-09-24T13:32:15Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > That’s the short answer. For a more complete answer there are various conditions and qualifications before these people can get a work permit, but the vast majority of them will be able to legally work in the US. And one of those qualifications is that it has been over 365 days since they have applied for asylum, is it not? > [@Broomstick](#): > > The fact that their cases often take many years to decide is on us and our dysfunctional immigration system, not the asylum seekers who are complying with the rules. I am on your side here. I think that the rejection rate should be much closer to 0%, and it should take much less time to get that determination. But, I am discussing the laws as they currently stand, dysfunctional as they are. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/275 "2022-09-24T17:51:17Z")
Do you mean 4x is too small compared to current rates? Or that if we bumped the visa rate it would increase demand? Or something else? This site gives the daily breakdown of 2.2k invited, 4k unauthorized and apprehend, and 1k unauthorized and undetected. If I understand these numbers correctly it seems like a 2x increase would be sustainable at current demand. One huge caveat that these numbers lump all source countries together. I suspect the ratio of demand and visas is much higher for the countries sending a lot of the 5k unauthorized. I think this is why you suggested 4x is not high enough. This is an area I don’t know much about and am curious what a sustainable immigration rate would be. IIRC @PhillyGuy’s 4x assumed a path to authorized status for the existing +10M unauthorized workers. > **[Immigration to the United States](https://www.prb.org/resources/immigration-to-the-united-states/)** > > Informing a Smarter World ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/276 "2022-09-24T17:53:47Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > he sees a way to gain political advantage for his father-in-law. I’m not sure that is the bandwagon anyone wants to be hopping on right now… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/277 "2022-09-24T18:35:19Z")
I mean that, under the current rules, there is no legal path to immigration for an unskilled worker (aside from “sneak in and hope for an amnesty”). These people aren’t “not waiting their turn”; they don’t have a turn to wait. Four times zero is still zero. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/278 "2022-09-25T10:51:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > That’s the short answer. For a more complete answer there are various conditions and qualifications before these people can get a work permit, but the vast majority of them will be able to legally work in the US. > > And one of those qualifications is that it has been over 365 days since they have applied for asylum, is it not? Incorrect. According to my most recent look-up/information they can apply for a work authorization when their case has been in the system for 150 days and can receive one at 180 days into their wait, or at about six months into their stay in the US. Assuming, of course, there aren’t bureaucratic delays for _that_. Not sure how they’re supposed to survive until that point, but in practice I assume it’s charity or under the table work or both. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/279 "2022-09-25T10:52:18Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > he sees a way to gain political advantage for his father-in-law. > > I’m not sure that is the bandwagon anyone wants to be hopping on right now… In Kushner’s case it’s the family brand/business he’s supporting as well as a political candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656/280 "2022-09-25T10:55:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I mean that, under the current rules, there is no legal path to immigration for an unskilled worker (aside from “sneak in and hope for an amnesty”). These people aren’t “not waiting their turn”; they don’t have a turn to wait. Four times zero is still zero. Yes. The current system only wants highly skilled, highly educated immigrants. Most of the people who want in are not that. Also, it seems we are heading towards a _shortage_ of people for jobs that don’t require higher education or elite skills, as well as a shrinking youth demographic. Both of those latter problems could be mitigated by allowing younger and less educated people to enter. I can’t help but think that the rejection of this option is connected to the fact that a lot of the people matching that description also happen to have darker skin and/or non-Christian religions which for some stupid reason scares some people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-migrants-stunt/971656.md?page=15)