# Republican official opposes Freedom of Speech **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 27, 2018, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667 "2018-02-27T06:31:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/41 "2018-02-28T23:03:21Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > They’re not technically punishing free speech; they’re punishing a decision by a corporation to dissolve a business partnership. They’re not punishing something that was said by a corporate spokesperson or a protest attended by employees off the clock. It’s dirty politics, and you could also argue that it’s against the spirit of free enterprise and freedom from government’s big hand, but it’s probably not an attack on the first amendment. He is threatening to punish exorcise of freedom of association. Also in the first amendment. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/42 "2018-03-01T02:39:41Z")
The constitution says nothing about demons! ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/43 "2018-03-01T14:19:00Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > He is threatening to punish exorcise of freedom of association. Also in the first amendment. No he’s not. Look I think it’s obviously dirty politics, but people are getting carried away here. Let’s not claiming it’s unconstitutional when it’s just taking away a tax break that Delta was never entitled to anyway. And for what it’s worth, I wouldn’t actually have a problem punishing exorcism. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/44 "2018-03-01T15:02:09Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > And if you move the hub, then by definition it is centrally located. If I’m flying from Florida to Charlotte (formerly through Atlanta), Kansas (or Missouri) really isn’t centrally located. If Delta changed their name to Heartland and flew around the West and midwest, Ka-Mo would make a good hub. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/45 "2018-03-01T16:11:01Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > They’re not technically punishing free speech; they’re punishing a decision by a corporation to dissolve a business partnership. They’re not punishing something that was said by a corporate spokesperson or a protest attended by employees off the clock. It’s dirty politics, and you could also argue that it’s against the spirit of free enterprise and freedom from government’s big hand, but it’s probably not an attack on the first amendment. I thought money was speech, and corporations are people too? ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/46 "2018-03-01T18:08:59Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > No he’s not. > > Look I think it’s obviously dirty politics, but people are getting carried away here. Let’s not claiming it’s unconstitutional when it’s just taking away a tax break that Delta was never entitled to anyway. > > And for what it’s worth, I wouldn’t actually have a problem punishing exorcism. If you think the tax breaks are a bad idea (which I generally agree with), that is fine. But making them contingent after the fact on maintaining certain business associations is not constitutional. There are rational arguments to make about the mortgage tax credit, but if the law was changed to remove for any one who did not join the republican party, or any one who did join a labor union, that would be a clear violation. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/47 "2018-03-01T23:33:11Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > If you think the tax breaks are a bad idea (which I generally agree with), that is fine. **But making them contingent after the fact on maintaining certain business associations is not constitutiona** l. Are you a constitutional law expert, or do you have any case law handy? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/48 "2018-03-01T23:50:06Z")
Well, both houses of the Georgia legislature have [made good on Cagle’s threat](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/business/delta-nra-georgia.html?src=trending&module=Ribbon&version=context®ion=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Trending&pgtype=article), stripping the jet fuel tax break out of the tax relief law. The governor wanted the jet fuel tax exemption to remain, but seems likely to sign the bill into law anyway. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/49 "2018-03-01T23:51:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Note that I wrote that the Republicans have been saying they’re the Free Speech party. I didn’t write that they are the Free Speech party. Exactly. Republicans can be represented by a coin. On one side is what Republicans say. On the other is what Republicans do. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/50 "2018-03-01T23:57:56Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I thought money was speech, and corporations are people too? Apparently money is only protected speech when it’s saying the right things. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/51 "2018-03-01T23:58:07Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > If you think the tax breaks are a bad idea (which I generally agree with), that is fine. But making them contingent after the fact on maintaining certain business associations is not constitutional. > > There are rational arguments to make about the mortgage tax credit, but if the law was changed to remove for any one who did not join the republican party, or any one who did join a labor union, that would be a clear violation. Right, your general argument here seems to be correct. But the word “remove” in your second paragraph is significant. While the jet fuel tax break was removed from the bill, they did not actually take away anything that Delta already had. They simply declined to put in place a piece of favorable legislation. Also, it depends on the line you draw between commercial conduct and speech. Constitutional law professor Eugene Volokh notes that, while the government isn’t allowed to regulate speech, it can regulate economic conduct such as a company’s decision about whether to provide a discount on its services. [Here’s Volokh’s argument](http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-delta-nra-20180226-story.html): > [@](#): > > But Eugene Volokh, a professor at UCLA’s law school, thought the lieutenant governor had not overstepped his bounds. > > “They may be playing political hardball, but that’s not a 1st Amendment violation,” Volokh said, adding that officials can’t regulate political speech, but they can regulate a company’s commercial activity. > > “Contributing money for the purposes of speech is protected by the 1st Amendment. If the government can limit the use of money for purposes of speech, it will be limiting speech,” Volokh said. > > But “spending money in other contexts — or choosing not to spend money, or choosing not to give a discount in an economic transaction — is completely regulable by the government, broadly,” Volokh said. “A decision about whether to give a discount … that is an economic decision that the government can act upon.” There are other constitutional scholars, however, who seem to think that the Lt. Gov. might have overstepped the Constitutional limits. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/52 "2018-03-02T00:03:09Z")
I wonder who Delta will be writing checks to in next election cycle. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/53 "2018-03-02T07:08:53Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > If I’m flying from Florida to Charlotte (formerly through Atlanta), Kansas (or Missouri) really isn’t centrally located. > > If Delta changed their name to Heartland and flew around the West and midwest, Ka-Mo would make a good hub. I’ll be flying Delta from Denver to Anchorage in June. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/54 "2018-03-02T20:25:06Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > There are other constitutional scholars, however, who seem to think that the Lt. Gov. might have overstepped the Constitutional limits. I obviously agree with this viewpoint. Saying the government cannot infringe on free speech doesn’t mean that the government is prohibited only from removing your vocal cords. Any government action which strongly coerces speech, even if it doesn’t technically prohibit it, should be seen as suspect. To put this in terms conservatives can understand, the government cannot require gun owners to pay a hundred thousand dollars for a permit and argue that it’s not technically stopping anyone from owning a gun. Or a government official cannot require that a company make a million dollar donation to the ACLU as a condition of receiving a favorable tax law. I recommend a similar exercise for anyone thinking about an issue like this; reverse the ideologies involved and see if you still find the government action acceptable. Republicans need to be told that they can’t have one set of rules for conservative speech and a different set of rules for non-conservative speech. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/55 "2018-03-02T21:18:10Z")
The CEO of Delta has issued what I prefer to see as a “go to hell” letter … "This week, you have likely seen Delta in coverage of the national debate over gun control and security in U.S. schools. I want to take the opportunity to update you on how we got here and where we stand. On Saturday, Delta rescinded a one-time group travel discount for the National Rifle Association’s annual meeting, and asked the organization to remove our name and logo from their website. This decision followed the NRA’s controversial statements after the recent school shootings in Florida. Our discounted travel benefit for NRA members could be seen as Delta implicitly endorsing the NRA. That is not the case. I have heard from many of you over the last few days. Our people and our customers have a wide range of views on how to increase safety in our schools and public places, and we are not taking sides. Our objective in removing any implied affiliation with the NRA was to remove Delta from this debate. While Delta’s intent was to remain neutral, some elected officials in Georgia tied our decision to a pending jet fuel tax exemption, threatening to eliminate it unless we reversed course. Our decision was not made for economic gain and our values are not for sale. We are in the process of a review to end group discounts for any group of a politically divisive nature. None of this changes the fact that our home is Atlanta and we are proud and honored to locate our headquarters here. And we are supporters of the 2nd Amendment, just as we embrace the entire Constitution of the United States. I have tremendous respect and admiration for Governor Nathan Deal, and thank him for the work he has done on the jet fuel tax exemption. He is a great friend to Delta. I know this action by the state legislature troubled him as it does all of us. I know it is not comfortable to be caught in a highly emotional debate, and many of you have received questions from customers. We are at our best when we bring our customers and our world closer together. Hopefully, our decisions this week will serve this ultimate cause. I want to thank every one of you for your professionalism and continued focus on taking care of our customers every day." ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/56 "2018-03-02T21:33:26Z")
Delta chose to play politics. They could have chosen to simply run an airline, but chose to play politics instead. Of course they’re claiming that they’re really not playing politics, and how they are shocked, SHOCKED, that politics is being played here. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/57 "2018-03-02T21:56:40Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Delta chose to play politics. They could have chosen to simply run an airline, but chose to play politics instead. Of course they’re claiming that they’re really not playing politics, and how they are shocked, SHOCKED, that politics is being played here. Choosing not to discriminate against non NRA members is playing politics. Riiight. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/58 "2018-03-02T22:08:25Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Delta chose to play politics. They could have chosen to simply run an airline, but chose to play politics instead. Of course they’re claiming that they’re really not playing politics, and how they are shocked, SHOCKED, that politics is being played here. Thank you!! We were having an acute “stupid fucking nonsense” shortage in this thread. You can always be relied upon. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/59 "2018-03-02T22:12:07Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Delta chose to play politics. They could have chosen to simply run an airline, but chose to play politics instead. Of course they’re claiming that they’re really not playing politics, and how they are shocked, SHOCKED, that politics is being played here. On the face of it, you appear to be saying Delta should never have supported a special interest group like the NRA in the first place. Is that your intent? ---
**Author:** ![aktep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@aktep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aktep)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667/60 "2018-03-02T22:33:25Z")
The only way they could have chosen not to play politics would have been to never have offered the discount in the first place. If they “simply run an airline”, then instead we have “Delta sponsors NRA, supports guns in schools but not guns on planes”, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-official-opposes-freedom-of-speech/809667.md?page=4)