# Republican Supreme Court in Texas refuses to order Dems back. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 11, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499 "2003-08-11T22:42:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/1 "2003-08-11T22:42:00Z")
> [@](#): > > AUSTIN - The all-Republican Texas Supreme Court today dealt a body blow to the GOP-led drive to redraw the state’s congressional boundaries by rejecting a plea from Gov. Rick Perry and Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst that the justices order the 11 Democratic senators to end their holdout in New Mexico. > > The state’s highest civil court denied the motion filed Thursday by the state’s top two Republicans that would have compelled the absent Democrats to return to Austin so the Legislature could take up redistricting. Looks like it’s the beginning of the end for Delays little “Lets force all the districts in Texas to be Pubbies” campaign. Agree? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/2 "2003-08-11T22:43:34Z")
[http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/legislature/6509334.htm](http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/legislature/6509334.htm) ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/3 "2003-08-11T22:55:21Z")
I think the Republicans’ lawsuit was preposterous. I cannot imagine how they ever hoped to win. Still, the Democrats can only hope to delay past the 2004 election. Sooner or later the Senators will have to return to the Texas Senate, and the pubbies have the votes to prevail. I believe the Dems have filed a suit asking the courts to require a 2/3 majority for the redistricting. I don’t know what the merits of that suit are. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/4 "2003-08-11T23:06:10Z")
I agree with **december**. The lawsuit was stupid. The courts gave it the only possible outcome, and all it could serve to do was to annoy the voters on both sides. And, just as **decmber** said, sooner or later the Democrats have to come back, and if the Republicans are determined, it’ll still happen. So, in reality, all of this posturing hasn’t changed anything at all, since it’s just sitting on the back burner waiting for the Democrats to come back. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/5 "2003-08-11T23:06:41Z")
> [@](#): > > An attorney for the Democrats hailed the court’s ruling as a victory for the quorum-busting senators who have vowed to remain holed up in Albuquerque, N.M., until the 30-special session Perry called on July 28 **expires in a little over two weeks.** (bolding mine) It helps to actually _read_ the article, **december**. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/6 "2003-08-11T23:11:51Z")
That doesn’t matter. He can special session them into oblivion, and barring that it can be brought up in the next session anyway if the status quo is maintained at the polls. C’mon, you don’t really think you’ve seen the end of this, do you? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/7 "2003-08-11T23:25:38Z")
One can only hope, **Airman**. The fact that the **All-Republican** Texas Supreme Court has ruled on this matter sends a strong message to Republican legislators. Sure, they can bring it up again. But after this ruling, it would seem preposterously wasteful to try these tactics once again. Of course, they could try to appeal to an even higher court…but that never works, right? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/8 "2003-08-11T23:31:58Z")
Well, I suppose they could take it to the US Supreme Court, but that legal bodies reputation for non-partisan jurisprudence is, well, legendary. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/9 "2003-08-11T23:32:03Z")
On the contrary…what better way to get things done is there? If they make the Democrats run, sooner or later even they’ll figure out that they just have to change the agenda to something else, like the latest social program, and lo and behold, the Democrats aren’t doing their jobs. Or the budget. The perfect time to try again would be at budget time. The Democrats wouldn’t dare leave then. There’s more than one way to skin a cat. It just takes Texans longer to figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/10 "2003-08-11T23:34:01Z")
Texans are well aware of the variety of possibility as regards skinning cats. It is simply that some methods are vastly more entertaining than others. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/11 "2003-08-12T01:00:48Z")
**Airman** , you may be right. Of course, others could view it as the Republicans wasting time, energy and money instead of “takin’ care of bizness…” Nonetheless, it seems to be a bizarre impasse. It reminds me of a chess match – not a stalemate exactly, but when one player (in a weaker position) can simply move his piece back and forth, never submitting to his inevitable loss. Usually there’s a limit to how many times a player can do this. I hope the same stands true for Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/12 "2003-08-12T02:10:26Z")
Stalemate. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/13 "2003-08-12T03:26:02Z")
And preferable to the alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/14 "2003-08-12T04:42:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by leander \* > \*\* Of course, they could try to appeal to an even higher court…but that never works, right? \*\* No, doesn’t work that way. This is purely a state matter. The federal Supreme Court isn’t going to meddle in an internal state issue unless it interferes with the U.S Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/15 "2003-08-12T05:41:11Z")
I don’t see why people would think that the Republicans don’t have a case. The Texas Constitution states "The Legislature shall meet every two years at such time as may be provided by law and at other times when convened by the Governor. " The Governor has convened the Legislature. The Legislature has refused to meet. Seems like a violation of the Constitution. What am I missing? And why are the Democrats “holed up” in another state? Are they afraid the state police would drag them to the Capitol if they stayed in Texas? Grey: Stalemate isn’t quite the same as a forced draw. ---
**Author:** ![cj\_finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@cj\_finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cj_finn)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/16 "2003-08-12T16:30:26Z")
The Ryan: it seems to me that the legislature did meet. The problem is that there isn’t a quorum. The quote you included doesn’t seem to say anything about a quorum. I have to say that the Texas court is probably well and truly pissed over this thing. Moreso because the Republican govenor has pushed this to the extremes that he has. Its one thing for the Dems to run, its another for the govenor to ask the Supreme Court to bring them back. No court wants to mess with internal legislative operations. Not only is the separation of powers a serious problem, messing about in such a manner invites comment from the legislature at a later date. Bad juju if you are a judge. This is a rather idiotic but fascinating chess game, wouldn’t you agree? cj ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/17 "2003-08-12T16:32:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > \*\* The Governor has convened the Legislature. The Legislature has refused to meet. Seems like a violation of the Constitution. What am I missing? And why are the Democrats “holed up” in another state? Are they afraid the state police would drag them to the Capitol if they stayed in Texas? > \*\* Well, the legislature hasn’t refused to meet. Some legislators, though, have refused to attend, enough so that the legislature doesn’t have a quorum. The Court ruled that it can’t force legislators to show. And yes, the Democrats are in another state because they’re afraid the state police WOULD drag them to the Capitol if they stayed in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/18 "2003-08-12T17:21:15Z")
> [@](#): > > A Senate leadership source said the “authorized measures” would be fines against the missing senators. No fine had been set, but one scenario considered would assess a $1,000 fine the first day and double the fines each subsequent day. > > Senate rules make no mention of fines, but the Texas Constitution says lawmakers can “compel the attendance of absent members, in such manner and under such penalties as each House may provide.” [http://www.statesman.com/legislature/content/coxnet/texas/legislature/0803/0812redistrict.html](http://www.statesman.com/legislature/content/coxnet/texas/legislature/0803/0812redistrict.html) At $1000 per day, and doubling each subsequent day, the fine on day n+1 will be (2[sup]n[/sup])\*1000. E.g., the fine on the 21st day will be just over $1 billion per member. That ought to get their attention. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/19 "2003-08-12T17:47:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > Well, the legislature hasn’t refused to meet. Some legislators, though, have refused to attend, enough so that the legislature doesn’t have a quorum. It seems to me that “attend” and “meet” are synonyms in this context. december: I would think that for the Legislature to impose fines, it would first have to achieve quorum, so there’s a catch-22 there. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499/20 "2003-08-13T15:53:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > \*\*It seems to me that “attend” and “meet” are synonyms in this context. \*\* Well, except “meet” refers to the entire legislature, while “attend” refers to individual legislators. The legislature can meet without every legislator being there, just like my office doesn’t close when I call in sick. It’s just in this case, not enough legislators are showing up to make a quorum. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-supreme-court-in-texas-refuses-to-order-dems-back/194499.md?page=2)