# Republican voter intimidation tactics **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 22, 2004, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496 "2004-09-22T15:22:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/41 "2004-09-23T17:08:37Z")
I think it’s clear that these incidents of voter intimidation which have been reported in New Jersey, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, Texas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, and Maryland are the work of a single misguided pollworker and not indicative of any larger problem. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/42 "2004-09-23T19:35:28Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > When the party in power (Democratic Party) benefits from loose or nonexistent enforcement of the voting laws, why should Republicans lie back and think of England? At a time when the Republicans control the White House, both houses of Congress, and roughly half (perhaps even a majority, I’d have to look it up) of the governorships and state legislatures, why are you characterizing the Democrats as “the party in power”? Seems to me if the “party in power” is to come under special scrutiny for fear of the possibility it will abuse its momentary advantage to perpetuate itself in power, that burden falls on the Pubs, not the Dems – both because of the current political situation, and because of the Pubs’ shameful and egregious recent history in this area. Just to take one example, which party made the unprecedented decision to redistrict Texas twice in the same Census period? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/43 "2004-09-23T23:20:08Z")
Republicans are the party of voter intimidation not because they are especially more evil, but because voter intimidation is generally more effective on Democratic base wards than it is on Republican base wards. First of all, Democrats are far more concentrated geographically: you can target them better. Second of all, many of our major constituencies, like minorities, are easy to target because they are geographically segregated. Democrats would love to be able to fight back, but it’s just not as easy. You can’t flyer a rich suburb with “make sure you bring your itemized list of tax deductions with you to vote” and expect it to make much difference. You can’t target white men (the Republican base) without targeting white women (generally important to the Democrats). So it’s largely a waste of time. Given that turnout often benefits Democrats and hurts Republicans, it’s pretty common that Republican Secretaries of State make voter registration as difficult as possible. But again, this is more historical opportunity: fighting to keep people to vote just HAPPENS to benefit Republicans right now. If it helped Democrats, I expect the roles would reverse. It’s still pretty screwed up though. While I can’t deny that I would love to give Republicans a taste of their own medicine just for once, I don’t think even I could stomach stealing peoples lawn signs and then leaving threatening notes, which is so par for the course that it barely merits mention anymore in most swing states. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/44 "2004-09-23T23:38:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > At a time when the Republicans control the White House, both houses of Congress, and roughly half (perhaps even a majority, I’d have to look it up) of the governorships and state legislatures, why are you characterizing the Democrats as “the party in power”? National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (AKA Motor Voter Law) Pub. L. 103-31, May 20, 1993, 107 Stat. 77 White House Clinton (D) Senate Democrat House Democrat ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/45 "2004-09-24T00:12:16Z")
And clearly, those who were in power in 1993 are the ones who are currently abrogating their responsibility to adequately investigate allegations of voter fraud. Bring on the vigilantes! ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/46 "2004-09-24T00:33:46Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > And clearly, those who were in power in 1993 are the ones who are currently abrogating their responsibility to adequately investigate allegations of voter fraud. They were the ones who created the dysfunctional voter registration system that is the law of the land today. 46,000 NYC residents are registered to vote in New York AND Florida. 68% of them are Democrats. Massive and blatant voter fraud, in New Orleans for example, is never prosecuted. The dead, illegal aliens, non-citizens, and felons, show their support for Motor Voter by voting early and often. Any Republican who supports reform or enforcement of the law is immediately attacked by the Democrats and their allies. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/47 "2004-09-24T17:06:57Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > They were the ones who created the dysfunctional voter registration system that is the law of the land today. > > 46,000 NYC residents are registered to vote in New York AND Florida. 68% of them are Democrats. > > Massive and blatant voter fraud, in New Orleans for example, is never prosecuted. > > The dead, illegal aliens, non-citizens, and felons, show their support for Motor Voter by voting early and often. > > Any Republican who supports reform or enforcement of the law is immediately attacked by the Democrats and their allies. I thought you were complaining about “loose or nonexistent enforcement of the voting laws”. Motor-voter registration is **part** of the voting laws. And where’s you’re cite for the assertion that the “dead, illegal aliens, non-citizens, and felons” are casting votes in significant numbers? (Bear in mind, also, that in some states felons do have the right to vote.) Also where’s your cite for your (implied) assertion that motor-voter registration is what makes that possible? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/48 "2004-09-24T18:22:23Z")
And where’s your demonstration of the relationship between poor enforcement of voting laws and vigilante tactics of intimidation of people based upon their ethnic, income, and residential status? Where’s your proof that these are the people who are engaging in voter fraud (indeed, your citation of New York-Florida voters seems to indicate that it’s affluent white voters who are the fraudsters) and where’s your evidence that these tactics are reasonably calculated to remedy the actual violations rather than just scare supporters of the opposing party into not voting? I’ll have to say, I find your deep “concern” about voter fraud extremely disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/49 "2004-09-24T18:51:16Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > 46,000 NYC residents are registered to vote in New York AND Florida. 68% of them are Democrats. Registered in both places or vote in both places? Being registered in multiple places doesn’t mean you got to vote twice. And if you DO vote twice, it would be easy to show: who votes where is public record. So do you have any evidence that this registration actually translates into unfair voting in most or many or even some of these 46,000 cases? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/50 "2004-09-27T22:58:58Z")
Update: From _The Nation_ website, “The Daily Outrage” column, September 23, 2004 – [http://www.thenation.com/blogs/outrage?bid=13&pid=1844:](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/outrage?bid=13&pid=1844:) > [@](#): > > Is the battleground state of Michigan turning into the next Florida? Is Terry Lynn Land - the Michigan Secretary of State and Republican co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign - about to become the next Katherine Harris? > > In the last few weeks the Department of State’s branch offices in Ann Arbor and Battle Creek have distributed special notices to newly registered voters. “Registering today? Please be advised that you are not eligible to vote in the November 2, 2004 General Election.” Except the deadline to register for November’s election isn’t till October 4 and the fliers were meant for display only after October 5. > > Ann Arbor’s a progressive haven. And Battle Creek remains a hotly contested swing district with a one-term House Republican struggling for re-election. > > What’s going on here? > > It’s impossible to know right now whether the State’s offices deliberately mislead voters or made an honest mistake. But when State Senator Mark Schauer of Battle Creek asked Land’s legislative liaison what they were doing to remedy the problem, he received a stunning reply. > > Nothing. > > That prompted a fiery news conference and rebukes from seven state legislators on Tuesday. “This is part of a consistent pattern and practice of the Republican Party,” said Sen. Samuel Thomas of Detroit. Land reversed course and sent out a second notice informing new voters that their vote would count. But the damage may already have been done. Who knows how many of these voters will disregard the second notice? How many didn’t register after seeing the first flier? It’s still unclear how many of the 173 state branch offices followed suit. Land’s office insists only two. Schauer’s office already learned of a third mailing to Brighton, Michigan. > > There’s a precedent here. In July Republican state legislator John Pappageorge generated an outcry after **labeling voter suppression the key to a Bush-Cheney victory. “If we do not suppress the Detroit vote, we’re going to have a tough time,”** he told the Detroit Free Press, speaking of the eighty percent black and heavily Democratic city. :mad: :mad: :mad: Any Michigandopers know anything about this? ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/51 "2004-09-27T23:15:12Z")
Hell, if we’re talking Republican hijinks here, [why not talk about Ohio, too?](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/27/112229/106) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/52 "2004-09-27T23:37:09Z")
> [@Airblairxxx](#): > > Hell, if we’re talking Republican hijinks here, [why not talk about Ohio, too?](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/27/112229/106) That story doesn’t actually say that Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell is a Republican. But he is – I checked. [Politics1 - Ohio Elections, Candidates & Politics](http://www.politics1.com/oh.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/53 "2004-09-28T00:06:16Z")
Sorry, forgot to mention that. And for those who don’t want to read the link, let me sum up: Ohio voter law requires voter registration cards be printed on thick, 80-lb stock paper. If Board of Election officials of the various Ohio counties get registration cards on paper thinner than that, they have to mail a new card out to the voter. If that new card is returned before October 4–one week from today–and the BOE can clear the backlog that they are already dealing with, the voter is registered. The whole point of the stock paper requirement was so that the cards wouldn’t jam machines in the post office. \But BOE officials are having to void registration cards that they’ve already received through the mail, on the basis that they’d be too dangerous to go through the mail.\ For shits and giggles, here’s a section of the 1971 Voting rights act, abridged: \*\*(2)No person acting under color of law shall - (B)deny the right of any individual to vote in any election because of an error or omission on any record or paper relating to any application, registration, or other act requisite to voting, if such error or omission is not material in determining whether such individual is qualified under State law to vote in such election. \*\* (Read the whole thing [here.](http://www.thecre.com/fedlaw/legal6/uscode42-1971.htm)) I’m pretty much at the “I’d laugh if I only didn’t feel like crying” stage for my country. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/54 "2004-09-28T00:52:56Z")
FYI, there’s a related GD thread going – “Right-wingers trying to block college-student voter-registration drives” – [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5302769#post5302769](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5302769#post5302769) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/55 "2004-09-28T02:00:29Z")
This is a look back at a _USA Today_ article from a couple of years ago that addressed Republican claims of double voting: [http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/2002-10-23-voterfraud\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/2002-10-23-voterfraud_x.htm) > [@](#): > > The Republican Party has compiled a national database of 3,273 names of people who it says apparently voted more than once in the 2000 elections. It is turning the list over to local authorities for investigation and possible prosecution. > But early looks at the data by state officials have found little evidence of multiple voting. \ > [@](#): > > Connecticut, the first state to check the GOP’s multiple-voting data, found it “highly flawed.” Officials said that at least 51 of 54 names listed as voting both in Connecticut and elsewhere were erroneous. \ In North Carolina, officials found that the first name on the double-voting list was that of state Rep. Martha Alexander, a Democrat who chairs the General Assembly’s panel on election laws. “It’s got to be two people with the same name and birth date,” said Gary Bartlett, director of the state Board of Elections. [/quote] It’s not that the Democrats are fighting reform where its needed. There just doesn’t seem to be as much of a problem as Republicans would have others think. When election officials can come up with accurate lists of names, something _should_ be done. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/56 "2004-09-28T16:38:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you claim this is a fallacy, it’s probable you meant False Analogy. > > Right? If you ask me, it looked like a Tu Quoque. Tu Quoque is a fallacy in which one attempts to defend oneself or another from criticism by turning the critique back against the accuser. Whether the accuser is guilty of the same, or a similar, wrong is irrelevant to the truth of the original charge. > [@Bricker](#): > > I agree that voter intimidation is terrible. > > I also think that actively pursuing every possible avenue to keep a candidate off the ballot in the first place is often questionable – why bother intimidating the voter if you simply remove his choice at the ballot? It’s good that you at least recognize your arguments as fallacious. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/57 "2004-09-28T16:47:26Z")
For what it’s worth I agree with Bricker that ballot eligibility laws are often biased for or against potential candidates (and I live in New York - one of the worst abusers of these laws). But in my opinion it’s like the laws barring felons from voting. Is it intended to influence an election? Yes. Is it on questionable moral grounds? Probably. But is it a violation of the law? No, and that’s a big gap in the analogy. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/58 "2004-09-28T19:02:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Re: There’s a precedent here. In July Republican state legislator John Pappageorge generated an outcry after labeling voter suppression the key to a Bush-Cheney victory. “If we do not suppress the Detroit vote, we’re going to have a tough time,” he told the Detroit Free Press, speaking of the eighty percent black and heavily Democratic city.] > > Any Michigandopers know anything about this? A little. An interesting and informative article on this is [here](http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/081604/opi_20040816015.shtml) in the _Oakland Press_. I chose this particular article because it seems to cover the facts fairly well, as well as put forward some interesting right-leaning spin, as you might be able to tell from the article. Anyway, the hot-button issue here is that “Detroit” has become, or is interpreted as, a code word for “Black,” so the immediate reaction to Pappageorge’s comment was to interpret “suppress the Detroit vote” as “disenfranchise Blacks.” Pappageorge denies that his remark had racial connotations, and I believe him, because that interpretation makes less sense than simply “suppress the Democratic vote.” However, what I found interesting was that in the rush to explain his remark, Pappageorge essentially admitted that his aim _was_ to get _fewer_ people to vote – albeit through legal means. [url=http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20777\_20040721.htm]His explanation: > [@](#): > > "In the context that we were talking about, I said we’ve got to get the vote up in Oakland (County) and the vote down in Detroit. **You get it down with a good message.** I don’t know how we got them from there to “racist,”’ Pappageorge said. “If I have given offense in any way to my colleagues in Detroit or anywhere, I apologize.” [my bold] Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/59 "2004-09-28T19:48:04Z")
> [@zut](#): > > A little. An interesting and informative article on this is [here](http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/081604/opi_20040816015.shtml) in the _Oakland Press_. I chose this particular article because it seems to cover the facts fairly well, as well as put forward some interesting right-leaning spin, as you might be able to tell from the article. > > Anyway, the hot-button issue here is that “Detroit” has become, or is interpreted as, a code word for “Black,” so the immediate reaction to Pappageorge’s comment was to interpret “suppress the Detroit vote” as “disenfranchise Blacks.” Pappageorge denies that his remark had racial connotations, and I believe him, because that interpretation makes less sense than simply “suppress the Democratic vote.” > > However, what I found interesting was that in the rush to explain his remark, Pappageorge essentially admitted that his aim _was_ to get _fewer_ people to vote – albeit through legal means. [url=http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20777\_20040721.htm]His explanation: Interesting. So what? If you care about the democratic process at all, it is illegitimate and reprehensible to try to suppress or even discourage **any** legally eligible voter or group of voters from voting, regardless of motivation or means. I see nothing to choose between “suppress the black vote” and “suppress the Democratic [or Republican] vote.” And I see little to choose between using lawful and unlawful means to achieve that end. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496/60 "2004-09-28T20:47:02Z")
I agree. Which was why I found it interesting that, while denying that his remark was racist (and it wasn’t, IMO), Pappageorge doesn’t seem to think that encouraging voter _non_-participation is unethical. Nor, apparently, does the Michigan Republican Party as a whole, although I admit that I could have missed thier rejection of Pappageorge 's statement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republican-voter-intimidation-tactics/265496.md?page=4)