# Republicans: A War On Science and how you are letting them win **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856 "2012-10-05T22:39:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/81 "2012-10-08T05:07:53Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > No one really believes that (Obama) is (a Muslim) do they? Or, no one with even a half way decent brain? If this is your criteria, then over half of Mississippi’s Republicans (and nearly half of Alabama’s) have 49% or less decent brain: > [@](#): > > The poll of Mississippi Republicans found that 52% said they believed Obama is a Muslim, 36% weren’t sure and only 12% said they believed he is a Christian. He fared slightly better in Alabama, where 45% said he is a Muslim, 41% weren’t sure, and 14% said he is a Christian. The same polling shows that Republicans of the deep south also have interesting views on interracial marriage: > [@](#): > > Obama is the son of a white mother and a black father, a marriage that remains objectionable to many Republican voters in two of the last states forced by the Supreme Court to allow interracial marriage. A 1967 court ruling on the case of a Virginia couple struck down laws against interracial marriage still on the books in 16 states, including Mississippi and Alabama. > > A few states, including Alabama, kept the laws even though they could no longer be enforced. Alabama finally repealed its law in 2000 through a public referendum, though 40% of the electorate voted in favor of keeping interracial marriage illegal. > > The PPP poll released Monday showed some changes, with 67% of Alabama Republicans saying they believe interracial marriage should be legal, though 21% said it still should be against the law. In Mississippi, 54% said it should be allowed, while 29% said it should remain illegal. > > [Los Angeles Times](http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/12/news/la-pn-poll-obamas-a-muslim-to-many-gop-voters-in-alabama-mississippi-20120312) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/82 "2012-10-08T06:43:54Z")
R&D expenditures of the US over time: > **[Home | Research.fi](https://www.research.fi/en/resources/R_D_expenditure/GDP_share_of_RD_expenditure_in_certain_countries)** > > Research.fi is a service offered by the Ministry of Education and Culture that collects and shares information on research conducted in Finland. You can see a slight rise in 2009 due to ARRA. From the middle of the last decade: [http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind08/c0/tt00-04.htm](http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind08/c0/tt00-04.htm) US R&D as a share of GDP is slightly above average relative to other developed nations (OECD) and below that of Japan, Sweden and South Korea. It is equal to Germany. I’ve heard worries though that a larger share was devoted to basic research 30 years ago. I wouldn’t say that the house is burning. Half the country is relatively sane after all. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/83 "2012-10-08T07:16:12Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > R&D expenditures of the US over time: > [RESEARCH.FI](http://www.research.fi/en/resources/R_D_expenditure/GDP_share_of_RD_expenditure_in_certain_countries) > You can see a slight rise in 2009 due to ARRA. > > From the middle of the last decade: > [http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind08/c0/tt00-04.htm](http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind08/c0/tt00-04.htm) > > US R&D as a share of GDP is slightly above average relative to other developed nations (OECD) and below that of Japan, Sweden and South Korea. It is equal to Germany. I’ve heard worries though that a larger share was devoted to basic research 30 years ago. > > I wouldn’t say that the house is burning. Half the country is relatively sane after all. People tend to confuse R&D with research. Pretty much all IC development, like for new processors, falls under R&D. I know, I filled out the tax form one year. But this, while vitally important, is not creating the technology for 10 years out. Especially not the highly risky project that no VC would fund, and which are less and less popular in industry. At Bell Labs in the good old days the whole place was R&D, but only 10% was R. My budget was split between them, and my deliverables for the two pieces were very different. I’m not worried about the D part these days - only the R part. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/84 "2012-10-08T07:18:07Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > For every creationist Republican, there’s a Democrat who thinks nuclear power plants cause cancer or the CIA invented AIDS to kill black people. So it’s unfair to frame scientific ignorance as a specifically Republican problem. Please give a scenario where the majority of Dems running for president would believe any of these things. By the way - Chernobyl did cause cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/85 "2012-10-08T07:43:14Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I keep forgetting, is it **Clothahump** or **Oakminster** who’s the staunch, practically **Der Trihs** level atheist? Whichever one it is, I’m sure he’d agree with you 100%. \*\*Clothahump \*\*is atheist, IIRC \*\*Oakminster \*\*is a churchgoer. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/86 "2012-10-08T08:18:22Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > People tend to confuse R&D with research. Pretty much all IC development, like for new processors, falls under R&D. I know, I filled out the tax form one year. But this, while vitally important, is not creating the technology for 10 years out. Especially not the highly risky project that no VC would fund, and which are less and less popular in industry. > At Bell Labs in the good old days the whole place was R&D, but only 10% was R. My budget was split between them, and my deliverables for the two pieces were very different. > I’m not worried about the D part these days - only the R part. Yes, I had previous remarks by you in mind. I haven’t stumbled across any statistics that take this concern seriously. They may exist though. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/87 "2012-10-08T09:49:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What does this have to do with the topic the rest of us are discussing? This: > [@kambuckta](#): > > I grew up in a time when the US was considered THE world leader in all things. The US Way of Life (as far as my contemporaries and I were concerned: think 1960’s - 1980’s) was something to aspire to, economically, politically and intellectually. The United States of America brought the rest of us in the backward-world some hope for the future, and I for one was certain of its promise (and not just a little bit envious either). > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I don’t know what country you’re from, but considering that parties like the National Front, British National Party, the Left, and the Party for Animals all have representation in Europe (remember that neither Mr. Akin nor Mr. Broun would be nationally viable candidates) I am sceptical. No one in the BNP is a nationally viable candidate. The BNP were elected to European Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/88 "2012-10-08T10:46:18Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > A normal guy at my workplace- an Iraq War veteran and a stable, generally successful person- apparently truly believes Obama is a Muslim. And, at least to some extent, a socialist too. > > The guy isn’t an idiot. I am not sure how to take it. Point out to him that the “birther” lawsuits were all about people in the military trying to weasel out of serving in combat. Does the want to stand with those people? ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/89 "2012-10-08T12:45:55Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > By the way - Chernobyl did cause cancer. There are no Chernobyl-style plants in the US nor are any contemplated. We’re talking about conventional US nuclear power plants in normal operation (or almost all disaster scenarios, for that matter.) ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/90 "2012-10-08T12:47:36Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > The same polling shows that Republicans of the deep south also have interesting views on interracial marriage: That has nothing to do with science. Most likely you brought it up because you feel the argument slipping away. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/91 "2012-10-08T12:52:48Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > crackpot supply side economics Economics is not a science. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/92 "2012-10-08T13:29:56Z")
Ed Markey thinks radiation from cell phones can cause cancer. Al Gore often cites neo-paganist beliefs as a good reason to protect the environment Most Catholics are Democrats, and Catholics believe any number of unscientific things, such as transubstantiation of the eucharist. [38% of Democrats](http://www.gallup.com/poll/108226/republicans-democrats-differ-creationism.aspx), including some prominent politicians, are creationists. A Congressional Republican tried to override the FDA’ scientific finding that a genetically engineered fish was not safe — with three Democratic co-sponsors. Obama declared himself “suspicious” that vaccines cause autism Don’t expect me to defend Republican flat-earthers. But you need to look at the root causes on both sides of the political spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/93 "2012-10-08T14:45:55Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You are right. I used to review proposals for NSF - real proposals that added to knowledge and in my field were very practical. Then they dried up and got moved to reviewing grants for small businesses who were asking for money to commercialize inventions - something Congress dreamed up to make NSF useful for the people giving them money. Apropos of nothing, this reminds me of the apocraphal story of someone asking Einstein what good the Theory of Relativity was. His answer was, “What good is a baby?” I’ve often thought that Boolean algegra would never had gotten any funding because, at the time, damned if I can see any reason for it. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/94 "2012-10-08T14:47:07Z")
[http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/articles/2005/12/1218doonesbury\_lg.gif](http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/articles/2005/12/1218doonesbury_lg.gif) Cute little Doonesbury cartoon addressing evolution. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/95 "2012-10-08T14:52:47Z")
And once again you need to use examples that do not follow to make a point. > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Ed Markey thinks radiation from cell phones can cause cancer. He only has demanded more research, The GAO did recommend that course of action after an inquiry, BTW he does accept the science, otherwise he would had already make moves to ban or demand changes to the manufacturers. > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Al Gore often cites neo-paganist beliefs as a good reason to protect the environment Cite? Most of his sayings on the matter and in context are just calls to the people of faith to get involved. This item you are posting here is also part of the denier bag of tricks, It is not religion what Al Gore uses as the basis for protecting the environment. Your point here is indeed a perfect example of false balance. > **[“Why Don’t You Bash Al Gore?”](https://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/why-dont-you-bash-al-gore/)** > > Since I took the plunge and started publicly criticizing certain climate change contrarians, notably certain Utah politicians and Christopher Monckton, people on the other side of the fence have of… > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Most Catholics are Democrats, and Catholics believe any number of unscientific things, such as transubstantiation of the eucharist. > > [38% of Democrats](http://www.gallup.com/poll/108226/republicans-democrats-differ-creationism.aspx), including some prominent politicians, are creationists. And where are the bills and declarations that they will effectively shovel those beliefs down our throats? > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > A Congressional Republican tried to override the FDA’ scientific finding that a genetically engineered fish was not safe — with three Democratic co-sponsors. And not a successful effort, as most do not see it that way. > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Obama declared himself “suspicious” that vaccines cause autism And once again, no effort from him or a request to ban the stuff. > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Don’t expect me to defend Republican flat-earthers. But you need to look at the root causes on both sides of the political spectrum. Oh, you already did the equivalent of defending flat-earthers by mentioning a climate denier myth. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/96 "2012-10-08T14:56:50Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > [http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/articles/2005/12/1218doonesbury\_lg.gif](http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/articles/2005/12/1218doonesbury_lg.gif) > > Cute little Doonesbury cartoon addressing evolution. Why would Answers in Genesis have _that_ on their website? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/97 "2012-10-08T15:06:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why would Answers in Genesis have _that_ on their website? They use it to bash Garry Trudeau. > **[“Doonesbury” Needs Some Resistance](https://answersingenesis.org/natural-selection/antibiotic-resistance/doonesbury-needs-some-resistance/)** > > Sunday’s “Doonesbury” editorial comic strip in US papers once again ventured into the creation/evolution debate It is once again the old and debunked idea that the resistance to drugs by bacteria was already there since creation and not the result of evolution. BTW Answers in Genesis also pushes climate change denialism, turns out that among the few denier scientists like Spenser, there are also creationists. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/98 "2012-10-08T15:09:41Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > Dunno, but it can’t dance worth shit. The ones with the “Get Down” Syndrome can. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/99 "2012-10-08T16:21:21Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And once again you need to use examples that do not follow to make a point. > > … > > Oh, you already did the equivalent of defending flat-earthers by mentioning a climate denier myth. When Democrats do it, it doesn’t matter, but when Republicans do it, it’s a threat to the very fabric of our nation. Is that the general idea? Apparently, you are not satisfied with simply voting against people. You want more options for stopping these halfwits. How about a scientific supreme court that has the power to overturn any law not in accord with the scientific consensus? Sorry, but that’s a cure far worse than the disease, for scientific as well as political reasons. A Congress composed of people who got their jobs by winning 51% of the vote in some district full of dopes is always going to contain a significant fraction of dopes. The guys who wrote the Constitution realized this and set things up to limit the amount of mayhem these dopes could cause. But nobody cares about that any more. They have a touching, naive faith in the competence and good will of government, a faith that is strangely unaffected by example after example of government arrogance and stupidity. No matter how baldly the government demonstrates its incompetence, they want more government programs. Look at the healthcare law. All good liberals were in favor of increasing government’s role in healthcare. When conservatives said the mandate and other aspects of the law were unconstitutional, liberals said it was just self-serving obstructionism. So you got your healthcare law. Now you get to enjoy a health care system where idiot congressmen decide whether your sore back would be better treated by surgery or by aromatherapy. How do you like them apples? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/100 "2012-10-08T16:49:33Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > There are no Chernobyl-style plants in the US nor are any contemplated. We’re talking about conventional US nuclear power plants in normal operation (or almost all disaster scenarios, for that matter.) There are people who think power lines cause cancer, and there are people who think cellphones cause cancer. Again, are most Dems opposed to nuclear power plants because of cancer? Are any substantial number opposed due to this? Are leaders opposed due to this? The opposition I’ve seen has been around the potential for catastrophic failure (which we’ve seen,) around the problem of waste disposal, and on the problem of terrorist threats. I’m for nuclear power personally. but all of these issues are real and nothing like global warming denial or creationism. By the way, anyone looking for an obnoxious anti-science democrat only has to go back to Proxmire, who attacked real science in order to get in cheap shots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856.md?page=6)