# Republicans: A War On Science and how you are letting them win **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856 "2012-10-05T22:39:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/121 "2012-10-08T23:46:19Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Not unless protecting the environment is _ipso facto_ neopagan. Based on his book [_The Assault on Reason,_](http://www.amazon.com/The-Assault-Reason-Al-Gore/dp/1594201226) Gore is more a rationalist than anything else. Like any good politician, he doesn’t quite say he _believes_ in paganism, he’s just willing to use it and any number of other religions to bolster his position. A position I do not necessarily disagree with, I hasten to add. But when someone starts talking about goddesses and nature worship, you start to wonder whether the other stuff he’s saying is a bunch of malarkey too. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/122 "2012-10-08T23:59:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, then they take their votes with them. And your kind of conservatives are not numerous enough to win alone. Then destroy the Party and re-form a portion of it named something else that represents what people like me that lean conservative but eschew religion want: less government intrusion, less wasteful spending, a strong military, an embrace of science, tolerance towards marijuana laws, homosexuals and anyone else, provide some form of government healthcare and do everything in our power to reduce the deficit. Yeah, it’ll happen. Speaking of which, it’s weird to me how we’ve become a nation of just two very powerful and monetarily connected political parties. Back in the day it seemed to not be a big deal for a new party to come along…populists, Whigs, whatever. It seems incredibly unlikely that we will deviate from the two parties we currently have in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/123 "2012-10-09T00:00:37Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Like any good politician, he doesn’t quite say he _believes_ in paganism, he’s just willing to use it and any number of other religions to bolster his position. A position I do not necessarily disagree with, I hasten to add. But when someone starts talking about goddesses and nature worship, you start to wonder whether the other stuff he’s saying is a bunch of malarkey too. Gore is a Baptist. What has he said about goddesses and nature worship? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/124 "2012-10-09T00:06:54Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Then destroy the Party and re-form a portion of it named something else that represents what people like me that lean conservative but eschew religion want: less government intrusion, less wasteful spending, a strong military, an embrace of science, tolerance towards marijuana laws, homosexuals and anyone else, provide some form of government healthcare and do everything in our power to reduce the deficit. > > Yeah, it’ll happen. Again: That kind of conservatives are not numerous enough to win alone. Because “winning” under our present system takes a majority or a plurality – see below. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Speaking of which, it’s weird to me how we’ve become a nation of just two very powerful and monetarily connected political parties. Back in the day it seemed to not be a big deal for a new party to come along…populists, Whigs, whatever. It seems incredibly unlikely that we will deviate from the two parties we currently have in the near future. But, note that America has almost always had some form of two-party system. Why? It’s not our political culture, it’s our political **system.** What we have now in America is called a “first-past-the-post/winner-take-all” system combined with a “single-member-district” system: The legislature’s jurisdictional territory is divided into geographic districts of roughly equal population, and each district elects one representative by majority-or-plurality vote. (“Plurality” meaning you can win the seat with fewer than 50% of the votes cast, so long as you get more votes than any other candidate for the seat.) That’s the system we use to elect the House, every state legislature, and most other multimember policymaking bodies. (Some county commissions and city councils are elected “at large,” which is less democratic still – that’s another discussion.) The problem with that electoral system, from any third-partisan’s point of view, is that it naturally forces a two-party political system. Consider: Suppose, in your state’s next election to the state legislature, 10% of the voters vote Libertarian (or substitute Green, or Socialist, or Constitution Party, whatever, same mechanics apply) – how many Libertarians get elected? **None,** because there are not enough Libertarians in **any one district** to form a plurality. No political party, therefore, can make it save by being a “big tent” party – which leads to the confusion as to, e.g., just what the GOP stands for these days, when it includes libertarians and paleocons and neocons and theocons and bizcons and those factions don’t always see eye-to-eye. That is why America has **always** had a two-party political system, except when it had a one-party system. There is no room for more than two. Under a [proportional representation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation) system (which most of the world’s democracies use, in one form or another – there are several forms), OTOH, if the Libertarians get 10% of the **votes,** they get (more or less) 10% of the **seats.** ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/125 "2012-10-09T00:14:36Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > If you think healthcare has nothing to do with science, my condolences to your survivors. Healthcare has to do with science. What you commented on was “healthcare **law** ” (your phrase, bolding for emphasis mine). There is a huge difference. For example, this has nothing to do with science: > [@](#): > > Look at the healthcare law. All good liberals were in favor of increasing government’s role in healthcare. When conservatives said the mandate and other aspects of the law were unconstitutional, liberals said it was just self-serving obstructionism. So you got your healthcare law. This is you attempting more relativism with the parties, something you failed to do with science in particular, so now you take a debate over something that at times pertains to science to misrepresent that the arguments were all about science. They weren’t. The healthcare debate was about who gets insured and who pays for it. Insurance ain’t science. Medical billing ain’t science. Now to be fair, let’s let you finish your point: > [@](#): > > Now you get to enjoy a health care system where idiot congressmen decide whether your sore back would be better treated by surgery or by aromatherapy. How do you like them apples? That’s not really science either: It’s science fiction. It might be an issue pertaining to science if indeed Obamacare attempted to take medical decisions out of the hands of trained professionals. However, that’s not actually something in Obamacare at all. Nothing in the Heathcare Reform Act allows for anyone other than trained physicians or the patient to have a say in the manner of care one receives. So scientists and physicians needn’t concern themselves, which is why they (and “liberals”) aren’t concerning themselves. That’s okay. Another science-denying Republican Sarah Palin made the same mistake when she erroneously complained about so-called “death panels.” So you’re in good company! I mean, she was almost Vice President… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/126 "2012-10-09T00:26:58Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Please don’t blame the party for the actions of a few religious fanatics. A nice sentiment, but unfortunately, this all starts at the top. You cannot even vote for Romney without condoning scientific ignorance: > [@](#): > > **Why Is Romney Campaigning on Medical Quackery? > He’s going after the ultimate niche voter: Virginia’s Lyme disease conspiracy theorists.** > > A patient comes to you with joint pain, difficulty concentrating, anxiety, poor attention, and mood swings. If your patient lives in a tick- and Lyme-disease-infested area, you would be wise to test for the bacterium Borrelia burgdorferi and, if detected, prescribe a course of antibiotics. But suppose the tests come back negative and there is little evidence that your patient was bitten by a tick or was infected with the Lyme disease bacterium. > > If you are a doctor who believes that the CDC and NIH have misrepresented carefully vetted clinical trial data about the diagnosis and treatment of Lyme disease, however, you might diagnose your patient with chronic Lyme disease and prescribe an intensive, long-term, side-effect-laden, mega-dose of antibiotics. > > And who would be the biggest supporter of your and your patient’s right to pursue a worth-testing-but-found-wanting treatment? Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. > > A Weekly Standard tipper sent in a campaign mailer from northern Virginia titled: “Romney-Ryan: Doing More To Fight the Spread of Lyme Disease.” It’s a little more tightly focused than most campaign mailers, maybe, but I admire them for thinking about the local angle: The D.C. suburbs are filthy with ticks, and Lyme disease and other tick-borne illnesses are a huge public health problem. > > But the details are delicious. The mailer promises that Romney and Ryan will: > > > [@](#): > > > > IMPROVE SYNERGY > > > > Ensure that government agencies have an open line of communication and work with patients, researchers, doctors, and businesses in an objective, comprehensive manner. > > > > SUPPORT TREATMENT > > > > Encourage increased options for the treatment of Lyme Disease and provide local physicians with protection from lawsuits to ensure they can treat the disease with the aggressive antibiotics that are required. > > Here’s a translation: Forget the science, just channel your legitimate fear of a dangerous disease and your misguided fear of the medical establishment into a vote for us. > > As a Slate story pointed out years ago, chronic Lyme disease—not the persistent effects of a long-term bacterial infection but a collection of mysterious symptoms—has powerful supporters. Advocates for the diagnosis tend to blame the medical establishment for not taking them seriously enough. In 2008, the attorney general of Connecticut investigated the Infectious Diseases Society of America, a 50-year-old organization with more than 9,000 physician and scientist members, for misrepresenting the science of Lyme disease. Not to be outdone, Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell assembled a governor’s task force on Lyme disease. He appointed Michael Farris as its chair. Farris is a lawyer and the chancellor of Patrick Henry College, aka God’s Harvard, whose motto is “For Christ and for Liberty” and whose “Statement of Faith” holds that the “Bible in its entirety” is “inerrant.” The school isn’t known for its biology department. > > The task force’s report states: “There is no scientific basis for concluding that 30 days or less of antibiotics is sufficient treatment for every case of Lyme disease.” Again, tell it to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. > > I don’t mean to make fun of people who are suffering from what they think is chronic Lyme disease. Their symptoms are real, and they deserve help. But giving them a phantom diagnosis and making them part of a crusade to bring truth to medicine just perpetuates the idea that the symptoms they describe must be part of a complex, classic disease. > > Listen up, Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, and Bob McDonnell: Medical research and treatment save lives. Please do not perpetuate a mistrust of them in vulnerable, confused people. > > [Slate](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/09/chronic_lyme_disease_delusion_romney_campaign_pushes_medical_nonsense_.html) How many of the Republicans and Romney-supporting independents who post so eloquently in Great Debates are going to start with this Presidential election when it comes to voting against ignorance? Since none of them could be bothered to even show up for their pitting, I don’t think many. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/127 "2012-10-09T00:42:41Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > This is you attempting more relativism with the parties, something you failed to do with science in particular, so now you take a debate over something that at times pertains to science to misrepresent that the arguments were all about science. They weren’t. The healthcare debate was about who gets insured and who pays for it. Insurance ain’t science. Medical billing ain’t science. Sorry, but you’re just wrong about this. Insurance companies employ thousands of doctors to make judgments about the efficacy of different treatments and to second-guess the patient’s doctor. Any insurance company that paid no attention to science would soon be out of business. The PPACA, being essentially a set of insurance regulations, is also deeply intertwined with the practice of medicine. The trouble is, PPACA was set up by politicians, so it’s [riddled with sops to alternative medicine](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-weeks/health-care-reform_b_1622993.html). Bless the politicians, they just can’t help themselves. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/128 "2012-10-09T00:49:15Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Insurance companies employ thousands of doctors to make judgments about the efficacy of different treatments and to second-guess the patient’s doctor. But that’s not what you said. You said: > [@](#): > > Now you get to enjoy a health care system where idiot congressmen decide whether your sore back would be better treated by surgery or by aromatherapy. Your attempts to offer six degrees of Kevin Bacon are amusing though. Insurance companies hiring doctors happened long before Obamacare so your excuse for bringing up the healthcare debate is even more pitiful. Care to respond to the numerous other questions and criticisms of your views and the strawmen and hand-waving and non-cited assertions you have made to defend them? Because this one thing you’re infatuated with ain’t helping your cause. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/129 "2012-10-09T02:54:05Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > A lot of countries, actually:Bolding for emphasis added by myself. While I meant more generally (ie the US is not becoming a third-world country or a Saudi Arabia anytime soon), I concede the point there. However the US falling behind in educational levels shouldn’t ignore far bigger factors than the strength of fundamentalist religion (for example the Dutch have a fairly large minority, although smaller than the US, that are far, fare more hardcore and Koreans have a strong Christian population too) such as the educational structures of the countries, our curriculum, and the attitudes toward education by large segments of the population here in the US\> > [@gamerunknown](#): > > No one in the BNP is a nationally viable candidate. The BNP were elected to European Parliament. I was comparing Broun and the BNP in that both are not nationally viable but can win legislative elections. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/130 "2012-10-09T03:06:47Z")
I really don’t want to read it, does this count? [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAsHFSrh0i8) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/131 "2012-10-09T04:56:45Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Economics is not a science. Perhaps, perhaps not, but it does entail empirical observation. And there is such a thing as economic crackpot stuff. For example, Jude Wanniski favored a unicausal theory of history: tax rates could explain everything, even the rise of Hilter! The idea that tax cuts could routinely generate sufficient revenue via incentives to work involved parameter values that had no empirical basis and no serious economist defended. In other words it was a crank theory. > [@Clothahump](#): > > Please don’t blame the party for the actions of a few religious fanatics. As I said, you guys need to organize, if only for the sake of your self-respect. But libertarians embrace crackpot stuff too, from global warming conspiracy theories to the nutty stuff outlined above. There are serious conservative economists such as Martin Feldstein and arguably Nordhaus who steer clear of wackjob material. > [@Voyager](#): > > By the way, anyone looking for an obnoxious anti-science democrat only has to go back to Proxmire, who attacked real science in order to get in cheap shots. In the mid 1970s, nuttery was more even divided between the parties: heck, the Democrats may even have had the edge. > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > I can’t agree that the real problem is a lack of education. These guys have all been to college; they’ve all had a professor go over the scientific method. The problem is that the scientific outlook is just completely orthogonal to the political outlook. The scientific method is a systematic way of excluding opinions, feelings, personal experiences, fear, prejudice, desires and hopes, all of which are mother’s milk to politicians and the people who vote for them. If you explained a scientific principle to a congressman, his only thought would be “Now I’ll express polite interest and respect for this person’s opinions, so maybe he’ll vote for me.” The only science politicians have any use for is polling. I thought this was a nice point. But you are basically discussing the poetry of the campaign. Smart politicos know how govern on the basis of reality, while tossing red meat to the gulls every now and then. The real problem is that the Republican policy-making apparatus has undergone collapse: obstructionism crowds it out. So when Al Franken proposed a bill addressing a woman who was gang raped in Iraq [Republicans opposed it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=536360) without offering modifying amendments on their own. Admittedly I’m veering off into tangent now. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/132 "2012-10-09T05:55:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > While I meant more generally (ie the US is not becoming a third-world country or a Saudi Arabia anytime soon), I concede the point there. Do we have to be a third world country before it becomes a problem? > [@](#): > > However the US falling behind in educational levels shouldn’t ignore far bigger factors than the strength of fundamentalist religion (for example the Dutch have a fairly large minority, although smaller than the US, that are far, fare more hardcore and Koreans have a strong Christian population too) such as the educational structures of the countries, our curriculum, and the attitudes toward education by large segments of the population here in the US. I don’t think it’s fair to solely blame religion as the cause. America has always been a religious country and in fact, [Atheism Rises, Religiosity Declines In America](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/14/atheism-rise-religiosity-decline-in-america_n_1777031.html) according to a poll earlier this year. So how can we blame religion on how we are becoming increasingly more scientifically illiterate while our religiosity is trending less? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/133 "2012-10-09T13:01:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, then they take their votes with them. And your kind of conservatives are not numerous enough to win alone. Do they really?? Do you think ANYTHING the Republicans do or say would make the hard right types vote for Obama? I think all this socialist Muslim crap is the best thing that could happen to the Democrats. No undecided voter could be swayed by this BS, those that believe it are solidly in the Republican camp. But this line of attack gives Obama “street cred” and riles up his left flank…who, frankly, should be more than a little disillusioned with the seriously weak compared to what he promised PPACA (“Obamacare”) and his all too cozy relationships with the Federal Reserve and the banking community. A better strategy for the Republicans would be to point this out and go in on an “outsider cleaning up Washington” strategy but thankfully they are too stupid to see this. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/134 "2012-10-09T14:06:27Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > When Democrats do it, it doesn’t matter, but when Republicans do it, it’s a threat to the very fabric of our nation. Is that the general idea? Both sides are bad, so vote Republican. > [@](#): > > Apparently, you are not satisfied with simply voting against people. You want more options for stopping these halfwits. How about a scientific supreme court that has the power to overturn any law not in accord with the scientific consensus? Sorry, but that’s a cure far worse than the disease, for scientific as well as political reasons. Strawman. > [@](#): > > Look at the healthcare law. All good liberals were in favor of increasing government’s role in healthcare. When conservatives said the mandate and other aspects of the law were unconstitutional, liberals said it was just self-serving obstructionism. So you got your healthcare law. Now you get to enjoy a health care system where idiot congressmen decide whether your sore back would be better treated by surgery or by aromatherapy. How do you like them apples? I’m so glad you said the following: > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > If you think healthcare has nothing to do with science, my condolences to your survivors. Because I was going to let this one slide. Healthcare absolutely is subject to scientific inquiry, with numerous academic institutions dedicated to researching effective methods of treatment and provision of healthcare. For instance, a study conducted by Wilper in 2009 demonstrated the following: “[After additional adjustment for race/ethnicity, income, education, self- and physician-rated health status, body mass index, leisure exercise, smoking, and regular alcohol use, the uninsured were more likely to die (hazard ratio = 1.40) than those with insurance](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2775760/).” Extrapolating from those data, we can assume that almost 45000 Americans die each year due to lack of insurance. We can also look at the raw numbers: America spends roughly [17% of its GDP](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_%28PPP%29_per_capita) on healthcare, with the EU average being roughly 10%. Before he was banned, moonshot linked [this report](http://www.ehfcn.org/media/documents/The-future-of-healthcare-in-Europe---report.pdf) to demonstrate that European healthcare was unsustainable, but it projects a rise in healthcare costs to 14% of GDP by 2030 and only after a bulge in the aging population. The US absolutely needs to switch to a public healthcare system to avert a demographic crisis and pointing to idiotic Republican Congressmen should not deter anyone (any more than the US ought to switch to hiring mercenaries for the same reason). > [@Voyager](#): > > The opposition I’ve seen has been around the potential for catastrophic failure (which we’ve seen,) around the problem of waste disposal, and on the problem of terrorist threats. I’m for nuclear power personally. but all of these issues are real and nothing like global warming denial or creationism. Even the maligned Greens shy away from even mentioning the possibility of [catastrophic failure](http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2012/sep/28/nuclear-power-betamax-energy-world) (a wind turbine could collapse on people, technically). > [@Bennett and Lucas](#): > > But it is difficult to weigh the risks of rare yet highly catastrophic events, such as a full nuclear meltdown. The good news is that we don’t have to - it doesn’t even have to be part of the argument against nuclear power. > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Most Catholics are Democrats, and Catholics believe any number of unscientific things, such as transubstantiation of the eucharist. _Tu quoque_, poisoning the well and the deductive fallacy all aimed at establishing a false equivalence. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/135 "2012-10-09T15:02:42Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > That has nothing to do with science. Most likely you brought it up because you feel the argument slipping away. Fuck me, totally neglected to mention this: of course it’s a scientific question (to the extent that transubstantiation is, at any rate). See [here](http://www.stopthereligiousright.org/miscegeny.htm) and [here](http://www.press.umich.edu/titleDetailDesc.do?id=89977) for more. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/136 "2012-10-09T17:01:31Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Do they really?? Do you think ANYTHING the Republicans do or say would make the hard right types vote for Obama? No, but it might make them stay home on eday, or vote for the Constitution Party candidate or something. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/137 "2012-10-09T18:04:21Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > And as far as Harkin and his federally funded institute of quackery, that’s roughly the equivalent of Republicans setting up a National Creation Science Research Administration. Which for all I know maybe they’ve done. Yep, of course they have. It’s called the Discovery Institute. > **[Discovery Institute](https://www.discovery.org/)** > > A public policy think tank advancing a culture of purpose, creativity, and innovation. They are a real piece of work, I could spend hours exploring their website and laughing and laughing. They played a key role in the Kitzmiller vs Dover Area school District Trial in Pennsylvania, which was a revised version of the Scopes Trial held in 2005. The intelligent design faction lost. During the trial it came out that some of their materials were actually old creationism documents that had been “searched and replaced” to swap the words “intelligent design” for creationism. > **[Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District)** > > Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, 400 F. Supp. 2d 707 (M.D. Pa. 2005) was the first case brought in the United States federal courts testing a public school policy requiring the teaching of intelligent design (ID). The court found intelligent design to be not science. In October 2004, the Dover Area School District of York County, Pennsylvania, changed its biology teaching curriculum to require that intelligent design be presented as an alternative to evolution theory, and that O Eleven... And I can’t believe we’ve gotten 3 pages into a thread with this topic without anyone mentioning Rick Santorum’s famous “Science should stay out of politics” quote regarding evolution and global warming. [http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/12/santorum-science-should-get-out-of-politics.php](http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/12/santorum-science-should-get-out-of-politics.php) Not to mention the Santorum Amendment that he tried to tack onto “No Child Left Behind” which would required schools to discuss alternatives to the ever so controversial and unproven theory of evolution.( that was sarcasm ) To kill two birds with one stone, here’s the take on it from the allegedly non-partisan Discovery Institute. > **[Most Americans Support Santorum Amendment’s Approach to Teaching Evolution](https://www.discovery.org/a/18081/)** > > With his near-win in Iowa and his recent rise in the polls, Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum is facing new scrutiny about his views on intelligent design and evolution. This kind of stuff pisses me off because I love to learn. I love to study. I’ve been out of school for years but I’ve taught myself a whole lot of stuff like evolutionary biology, quantum physics and neuroscience I ( love my Kindle, it makes so many books on these subjects easily accessible). And the Republicans are worse than the Democrats. Don’t get me wrong, I have plenty of liberal friends that piss me of with their ignorant “conspiracy to suppress cancer cures bullshit” and similar wacko doctrines, but I haven’t seen any Democratic politicans actively embrace this ignorance as part of their campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/138 "2012-10-09T19:31:53Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > I don’t think it’s fair to solely blame religion as the cause. America has always been a religious country and in fact, [Atheism Rises, Religiosity Declines In America](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/14/atheism-rise-religiosity-decline-in-america_n_1777031.html) according to a poll earlier this year. So how can we blame religion on how we are becoming increasingly more scientifically illiterate while our religiosity is trending less? Perhaps if religion is declining that is why the wackos of that bent have become so pushy of late? It seems like I can’t go anywhere without having someone’s beliefs shoved in my face, so trying to influence politics and government seems a logical step for them. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/139 "2012-10-09T19:39:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Sorry, but the fact is that in the case of the nuclear issue those Democrats are not doing it alone, facts is that when things go to a vote against a new nuclear plant or a remote dump that is needed, you get people and politicians voting 70 to 80 percent or more against that, but specially at the local level. Clearly, there is a huge bunch of Republicans that go for NIMBY also on this subject. > > And on other issues I do not see the Democrats day in and day out attempting to make bills to make reparations to blacks for the AIDS epidemic, by contrast you can count on the Republicans of today to constantly pass bills that deny science: > > [http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/249429-house-gop-scrubs-climate-concerns-from-epa-bill](http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/249429-house-gop-scrubs-climate-concerns-from-epa-bill) > So, unless you can find that level of enforcing ignorance at the legislative level, I do think that it is fair to report that the Republicans are the undisputed champions of enforcing scientific ignorance. You wrote an awful lot to try and make the “he did it worser than us” argument. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856/140 "2012-10-09T20:22:04Z")
\*\*GIGO \*\*has this whole thing for facts, cites, and stuff. We’ve talked to him about it, but he won’t listen, he thinks they’re important. Whaddaya gonna do? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-a-war-on-science-and-how-you-are-letting-them-win/636856.md?page=8)