Republicans: A War On Science and how you are letting them win

[curlcoat]

I’ve been wondering about this for quite some time, and this thread appears to be a good place to ask the question. I know many otherwise normal people who not only intend to vote for Mitt, they shout their support from rooftops. Is this because of abortion? Religion? Believing that Obama isn’t a US citizen and is evil? What is it that non-wealthy people see in him? Or any of these nutjob Republican office holders?

If Mitt doesn’t go down in flames in November, I am going to be very worried about this country, and I’ve been a more or less Republican for many years (there isn’t a party that supports even half of what I believe in, so I guess I’m not really an anything!)

[Clarisse_McClellan]

@curlcoat

What is it that non-wealthy people see in him?

That he isnt a black Kenyan muslim socialist.

[Hyperelastic]

@GIGObuster

And I knew about him already, but he is not at the champion level of Orrin Hatch. Point being, that just as in the Nuclear case, he would not be able to do much if it wasn’t for the “fine” efforts of the Republicans. So, once again, I do not deny that there are a few woo woo democrats, but they are not in the same proportion and doing as much damage as the woo woo Republicans.

That may be, but there are enough “woo woo” Democrats that you can’t consider this to be some sort of inherently Republican problem. Most politicians will do anything to get elected and they won’t hesitate to pander to whatever the electorate believes, especially if they can do so without conflicting with their core agenda, if they have one. For instance, if you want to reform immigration, and you find that the Catholics in your district also want to reform immigration, you may find yourself showing up at the local saint’s day festival even though you think it’s a bunch of hooey.

I would also argue that of the people who tell pollsters they believe the Bible is literally true, about half don’t really believe that in their heart of hearts. They’re responding to a question from a stranger in a way they consider proper, which is a different thing from revealing your deep-down beliefs.

[Hyperelastic]

And as far as Harkin and his federally funded institute of quackery, that’s roughly the equivalent of Republicans setting up a National Creation Science Research Administration. Which for all I know maybe they’ve done.

[GIGObuster]

@Hyperelastic

That may be, but there are enough “woo woo” Democrats that you can’t consider this to be some sort of inherently Republican problem.

What counts is if they use that apparent pandering to make new laws, once again the Republicans are the ones that with frightening actions in congress do show that that they are no longer pandering.

Sanders: Sen. Inhofe’s position on climate change is ‘dangerously wrong’

“Many who take climate science seriously dismiss Sen. Inhofe. I believe that is a huge mistake,” Sanders said. “For better or worse, when Sen. Inhofe speaks, the Republican Party follows. And when the Republican Party follows, it is impossible to get real work done in the Congress.”

Sanders said he hopes Inhofe and fellow Republicans reconsider their position, and pointed out that 98 percent of scientists disagree with Inhofe’s views on global warming.

“The bottom line is that when Sen. Inhofe says global warming is a hoax, he is just dead wrong according to the vast majority of climate scientists,” Sanders said.

“It is time for Congress to get serious about global warming, and to work to transform our energy system,” Sanders said. “That starts by making sure that in this, the so-called greatest deliberative body, we deliberate with facts, not myths."

And what myths does Inhofe also uses to guide him on his votes against the EPA and anyone that takes this issue seriously? Why, if God told him global warming is a hoax, it is good enough for him and all the Republicans that do not take him to task and follow his blind lead.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/03/12/442584/inhofe-arrogance-people-change-god-climate/

My point is, God’s still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous.

[GIGObuster]

@Hyperelastic

And as far as Harkin and his federally funded institute of quackery, that’s roughly the equivalent of Republicans setting up a National Creation Science Research Administration. Which for all I know maybe they’ve done.

As pointed before, it is not just Harkin on that specific issue, but when you go back to the same example you show that there are not many other issues where the false equivalency that “they all do it” is not there.

[Leaper]

@John_Stamos_Left_Ear

I do have to wonder: Where are the Republicans to defend their votes for ignorance while posting - sometimes prolifically - on a board with a mission to eradicate ignorance?

Where is OMG - A Black Conservative? Where is Bricker? Where is Shodan and his fucking regards?

I keep forgetting, is it Clothahump or Oakminster who’s the staunch, practically Der Trihs level atheist? Whichever one it is, I’m sure he’d agree with you 100%.

[DMC]

@Hyperelastic

For every creationist Republican, there’s a Democrat who thinks nuclear power plants cause cancer or the CIA invented AIDS to kill black people. So it’s unfair to frame scientific ignorance as a specifically Republican problem.

Cite that 58% of Democrats believe either of those things?

[Measure_for_Measure]

@Hyperelastic

For every creationist Republican, there’s a Democrat who thinks nuclear power plants cause cancer or the CIA invented AIDS to kill black people.

And the nuttery has no effect, because it is too thin on the ground.

Nuclear power plants don’t get built because the technology is expensive so Wall Street doesn’t want to fund it. Blaming the greens for it is just whining. Find me a nuclear plant in the world built over the past 15 years that has come in under budget. Absent governmental subsidies or, looking forward, carbon taxes, nuclear power wouldn’t exist at all.

So it’s unfair to frame scientific ignorance as a specifically Republican problem.

Nice try. There are loons on both sides, but the lefty loons get no traction.

Google “Tom Harkin” and NCCAM

And this is the sole example that modern conservative apologists can trot out. It’s a decent one. But the law was passed in 1992 (though he did some anti-science maneuvering in 1998 as well). The example is getting a little stale. The NIH has funding of 1.6 billion and the NSF has 6.8 billion. The NCCAM gets $128 million. Which I agree is about 128 million too much. But it pales next to concerted efforts to curb the teaching of evolution in the classroom, crackpot supply side economics, crackpot climate theorizing, paranoid conspiracy theories about economic statistics and a medieval understanding of reproductive science.

Besides, Harkin is a big supporter of conventional research as well. He received an award for it in 2009: http://admin.virtualpressoffice.com/contentAccess?option=clickhere&deliveryid=1249573140274 So even for Exhibit A, woo is a small part of his portfolio.

[Rhythmdvl]

@Hyperelastic

That may be, but there are enough “woo woo” Democrats that you can’t consider this to be some sort of inherently Republican problem.

It’s not a Republican problem, it’s a Republican strategy. That makes it the country’s problem. Stupidity and base credulity span party lines. The choice to capitalize on it–to incorporate it into a fundamental political approach–is endemically Republican; anomolously Democratic.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@Locrian

I’ve posted before that I think that people who claim to be religious should NOT have the right to vote, let alone hold any elected office.

Thing is, I honestly DO NOT believe ANY politician to really be religious. If they show for Sunday services, it’s only for show.

And I fully agree that it is a war on science. Wasn’t it Kentucky or Kansas whose students were failing science on standardized tests who eliminated the evolution questions so the kids could pass?? All for the “holy contributions” the pols acquire for their campaign fund.

And I’ll even admit that if Pussyfoot Mittens denied the support from that guy who inspired Todd Aiken and Broun to spout off religious bullshit that was only hypocritical to their own beliefs, I’d feel a little respect for about three seconds.

We have got to put and end to religious freedom in this country. Go to the fucking holy land, and when the bomb drops, when the bullet stings, when your feeeeeling saaaad, just simply remember religion is shit and then you won’t feeeeeel soooo baaaaaad!

(Had to reformat that stupid film in post today, so it’s stuck in me.)

And here, ladies and gentlemen, we have the perfect example of an antitheist moron.

@JackieLikesVariety

bottom line, other countries will continue to pull ahead and leave us in their dust. at least, I hope so, for the sake of the species.

Who is pulling ahead of us exactly?

@kambuckta

I grew up in a time when the US was considered THE world leader in all things. The US Way of Life (as far as my contemporaries and I were concerned: think 1960’s - 1980’s) was something to aspire to, economically, politically and intellectually. The United States of America brought the rest of us in the backward-world some hope for the future, and I for one was certain of its promise (and not just a little bit envious either).

Not any more. What the hell happened?

Comparing to the overwhelming majority of the world, America remains freer and advanced economically, politically, and intellectually. One Congressman being proof of a nation in decline is even more absurd than the idea of vulgar and degenerate Hollywood movies being proof of a nation in decline.

Ideas as described in the OP wouldn’t have a chance in hell here (and I’ll posit the rest of the western world too). Sure, we have nutjobs in the political sphere, but they are rarely* endorsed by any major parties, and have to rely on running as independent candidates (ie, never seeing a seat in government, state or federal).

I don’t know what country you’re from, but considering that parties like the National Front, British National Party, the Left, and the Party for Animals all have representation in Europe (remember that neither Mr. Akin nor Mr. Broun would be nationally viable candidates) I am sceptical.

I’ve seen quotes around the place that 49% (or thereabouts) of US citizens believe that the Bible is indeed the word of God. (30% believe it is to be literally interpreted) That is some scary shit.

There is no contradiction between believing that the Bible should be taken in a literal manner (which does not mean hyper-literalism but taking allegory for allegory and factual accounts as factual accounts) and believing in an old earth and evolution.

How can a nation that once prided itself upon it’s inherent curiosity and intellectual rigour have degenerated into the caricature it is today?

We have plenty of scientists, engineers, and intellectuals here. Mr. Broun and the like were certainly around in the past (such as the leftist William Jennings Bryant).
You seem to think America is dominated by Young Earth Creationists which is hardly the case.

[DoctorJ]

Dan Savage was a guest on Slate’s Political Gabfest last week, and he made a great point:

Antibiotic-resistant gonorrhea has been identified in several countries so far (though not yet in the US) and has the potential to be a huge health issue in the next few years. The country that has the most manpower and the best research infrastructure to look into this problem is us.

Which is why it’s vital that we elect people who don’t think spending money researching gonorrhea is a waste of money when we can just wag our fingers at people and tell them not to have sex. Or who don’t secretly (or not so secretly) want a good fatal STD to go around to punish sexually active people.

[curlcoat]

@Clarisse_McClellan

That he isnt a black Kenyan muslim socialist.

No one really believes that he is do they? Or, no one with even a half way decent brain?

[GIGObuster]

@Qin_Shi_Huangdi

Comparing to the overwhelming majority of the world, America remains freer and advanced economically, politically, and intellectually. One Congressman being proof of a nation in decline is even more absurd than the idea of vulgar and degenerate Hollywood movies being proof of a nation in decline.

Of course, but then you have not paid any attention at the numbers of yahoos among the Republicans:

Stupid goes viral: The Climate Zombies of the new GOP

Intrigued, I began to poke around other states. Virtually all Republicans criticize what they call “cap-and-tax” as too expensive, but how many actually deny the reality of climate change science? How many have been infected by Teh Stoopid?

A lot. A real lot. Be afraid.

I started with two states whose candidates for Senate have made headlines for their statements on climate.

In Alaska, Joe Miller, running for Senate, attributes warming to “cyclical warming patterns.” So does Don Young, incumbent representative, who derides climate change as the “biggest scam since the Teapot Dome.” Gov. Sean Parnell, running for reelection, hasn’t said anything, although he dislikes polar bear protection.

In Wisconsin, Rep. Paul Ryan (Wis.-01) confuses climate and snowstorms; candidate Chad Lee (Wis.-02) dismisses “junk science”; candidate Dan Sebring (Wis.-04) speaks of “the fraud of cap-and-trade”; and Rep. Jim Sensebrenner (Wis.-05) praises “Climategate” for raising “legitimate questions.” Only Rep. Tom Petri (Wis.-06) may be reasonable. (I don’t have information regarding climate-related positions of a number of Republicans running in Wis.-03, Wis.-07, and Wis.-08, and for governor, all facing a primary Sept. 14.)

Ron Johnson, Wisconsin’s GOP challenger to Sen. Russ Feingold famously blames sunspots for climate change: “I absolutely do not believe in the science of man-caused climate change,” Johnson said. “It’s not proven by any stretch of the imagination.”

What of other states? eKos leader extraordinaire Patrickz checked out Oklahoma. John Sullivan (Okla.-01) complains about fraudulent data; James Lankford (Okla.-05) complains about the global warming myth; by contrast, Charles Thompson (Okla.-02), Frank Lucas (Okla.-03), and Tom Cole (Okla.-04) merely complain about the cost of cap-and-trade. Gov. Mary Fallin thinks global warming is caused by nuclear attacks. Sen. Tom Coburn considers human-caused climate change malarkey. By contrast, Sen. James Inhofe (R) is a paradigm of reason. One of these statements is false.

Does the virus only spread from Senate candidates? I turned my attention, randomly, to Arizona. Sadly, the Grand Canyon State is completely overrun with Climate Zombies.

Trent Franks (Ariz.-02) has yet to see clear and convincing evidence that global warming exists; Ben Quayle (Ariz.-03) states that the planet has warmed and cooled since the beginning of time; Janet Contreras (Ariz.-04) believes that the science has been called into serious question; Jeff Flake (Ariz.-06) identifies himself as a skeptic; and Ruth McClung (Ariz. -07) is tied with Wisconsin’s Johnson in the Stoopid Contest for her comment, above, regarding earth spin. I don’t have quotes from Paul Gosar (Ariz.-01) or David Schweikert (Ariz.-05) yet, but the Koch brothers’ Americans for Prosperity will be pouring money into their races. Jesse Kelly (Ariz.-08) founded the Arizona Tea Party, so is presumed zombiefied. Scorecard: five out of eight GOP candidates have gone on record as doubting the science, and the other three probably will.

Climate zombies are now the Republican party norm.

This past summer, climate peacocks like Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) succeeded in killing the Kerry-Lieberman bill by preening their sincerely held, beautifully articulated concerns about the horrors of climate while simultaneously refusing to find solutions.

And I do see the talk of decline as mostly a rhetorical device here; however, you are indeed missing the point, to remain the greatest country on earth we need to be better and avoid electing [del]zombies[/del] the blind into office.

[johnpost]

@Hyperelastic

For every creationist Republican, there’s a Democrat who thinks nuclear power plants cause cancer or the CIA invented AIDS to kill black people. So it’s unfair to frame scientific ignorance as a specifically Republican problem.

i’ve never seen evidence of a loony balance.

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

@curlcoat

No one really believes that he is do they? Or, no one with even a half way decent brain?

A normal guy at my workplace- an Iraq War veteran and a stable, generally successful person- apparently truly believes Obama is a Muslim. And, at least to some extent, a socialist too.

The guy isn’t an idiot. I am not sure how to take it.

[curlcoat]

@Try2B_Comprehensive

A normal guy at my workplace- an Iraq War veteran and a stable, generally successful person- apparently truly believes Obama is a Muslim. And, at least to some extent, a socialist too.

The guy isn’t an idiot. I am not sure how to take it.

This is where I am with the people I know who are pushing Romney. One person I think it’s because of his anti-abortion stance and “Christian values” but the others? No clue.

I’ve taken to looking at people driving cars with Romney stickers - why would a 30ish black woman driving an older Toyota want to vote for him?

For me, there has never been a clearer choice, yet a significant number of the voters say they will vote for him. Scares me - the masses truly are asses.

[DoctorJ]

@curlcoat

No one really believes that he is do they? Or, no one with even a half way decent brain?

Oh, how I envy you. I bet that if you polled everyone I encounter on a daily basis at least half of them would agree that the President is a socialist, a sizable minority believe he is a Muslim (and a solid majority would disagree that he’s a Christian), and a double-digit percentage believe to this day he was most likely born in Kenya (much higher if you include everyone who has seriously believed this at some point). And for the most part I’m talking about relatively normal and productive members of society.

Hell, ten minutes with my Facebook feed would show you more than you wanted to know about what stupid things people really do believe.

At least a couple of times a week someone I don’t know very well tries to engage me on these things and just naturally assumes, I guess since I’m a white guy and a professional-type from the sticks of KY, that I too believe all this shit. And they’re genuinely shocked when I say that actually I like the guy.

[John_Stamos_Left_Ear]

Just a quick reminder that in the OP I said the following:

@John_Stamos_Left_Ear

I don’t agree with every position that every Democrat takes and I am sure that some Lefties do on occasion embrace pseudoscience (such as the faux link between autism and vaccines but the likes of Michelle Bachmann famously took up that cause as well) , but there is nothing about them that is remotely comparable to the anti-Science agenda on the right and how prevalent it is.

I anticipated the lazy and inaccurate “they’re both the same” rebuttal right out of the gate. It’s not a very good counter, even if true - and it’s not true to begin with.

[John_Stamos_Left_Ear]

@Qin_Shi_Huangdi

Who is pulling ahead of us exactly?

A lot of countries, actually:

Almost everyone, from educators to government officials to industry experts, laments the lackluster abilities and performance of our nations’ students in science, technology, engineering and math (know as STEM education).

Two indicators are particularly worrisome, especially as this country experiences greater global competition and high unemployment. **American students score 23rd in math and 31st in science when compared with 65 other top industrial countries. **In math, we are beaten by countries from Lichtenstein and Slovakia to the Netherlands and Singapore. In science, we are beaten by countries from New Zealand and Estonia to Finland and Hungary.

For the United States, which led the way in space after Sputnik and showed the way in technological development and economic growth for the last 40 years, this is more than an embarrassment. And, for the future of our own GDP, economic well-being, and employer and employment needs, this is a disaster in the making. If the United States wishes to remain the most competitive and innovative country in the world – never mind just another competitive and innovative country in the constellation of industrial nations – this cannot stand.

CNN

Bolding for emphasis added by myself.