Republicans: A War On Science and how you are letting them win

This thread is sadly typical of the SDMB. Someone posts a load of half-baked partisan bluster and is shocked when it attracts opposing viewpoints.

Harkin and Broun are singing from the same sheet: “I’m no scientist, but the scientific consensus is so at odds with a personal conviction of mine, that the scientists must be wrong. Conventional scientists are too lazy or corrupt to question their dogma.” That is not false equivalence, it’s equivalence. Or it would be, except that taxpayers are coughing up a hundred million dollars a year to fund Harkin’s band of charlatans, while any harm done by Broun is as yet potential.

You care nothing about science, only about partisan politics, or else you would condemn Harkin as strongly as you do Broun.

This phrase is probably right up there with Hi Opal and 1920s style death rays, but threads like this are why I don’t visit the site much anymore.

It would be nice if those opposing viewpoints were not mostly discredited and/oror overstated. You will note that concessions were made to the scant few creditable examples of equivalency brought up by yourself and others.

Look, maybe you should just quit while you’re behind. Because I assure you, like the Republicans on science as compared to the Democrats, you are way behind.

Your successfully rebutted allegations that you do not concede and unanswered pleas for citations from several posters directed to you are all above for all to see, just as clearly as the fact that nobody has rebutted the many, many documented cases that both sides are not equal and it’s highly debatable that one side is even all that bad.

As I said before, there is nothing subjective about this. By any measurement, it is plainly obvious to anyone who is not guilty of cognitive dissonance coming out of their assholes like explosive diarrhea that Republicans are far worse in this department. Every criteria you can use save for anecdotal shows this in fact, all you have in comparison to the immersion of anti-science that permeates Republicans including their Presidential candidate and their actual platform is a couple of bare anecdotes.

Polls show this. Voting records show this. The number of derp-inflicted quotes from Republicans stacked up end to end could go to Mars and back; the same cannot be said of Democrats.

It’s. All. In. The. Thread. Above.

Half-baked partisan bluster? Here’s another scientific idea for you.

On a previous tread I did criticize Harkin and others, I even posted a link to their sorry efforts:

In other words, what you are saying here is also a strawman, many do criticize the woo proponents, no matter where they come, but once again, as the article shows, he is doing a lot of it with the help of the Republicans. Going forward, most recently he did attempt to put his favorite woo into Obamacare, but he was denied by most Democrats.

If you want to show any equivalence, I only ask you to produce the Republican majorities in congress that are opposing their peers in their attempts to prevent the EPA do something about protecting the environment.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20043909-503544.html

And we have another Gigo threadshit with the ‘global warming is gonna kills us all’ bullshit that he loves so much. At the same time it turns out that it is based upon the most corrupt and absolutely shitty science I have ever come across. All in the name of liberal ecological goals, of course. Since we all know the liberals are all loving and caring and only work for the betterment of all humankind.

You see I started checking on this stuff. And what I found is not pretty at all. For example, the USHCN data set. Now I am sure some of you are wondering what exactly the USHCN data set is and what it has to with this. Well, the USHCN is the United States Historical Climatology Network. It is the NOAA U.S. record. The USHCN data shows warming, quite a bit actually. What is interesting is that the warming is the adjustments and only the adjustments.

What is this, you ask?

Thisis the difference between the raw data from the USHCN and the ‘adjusted’ data.

Notice that the warming since 1973 is all in the adjustments. The actual, raw records do not show any warming.

Now, with data it is possible that there may need to be adjustments made. However, when the anomaly that caused Gigo and the rest of the warming conspirators* panties to get all bunched up is made up entirely of the adjustments, you’ve got a serious problem. The perceived problem only exists when they adjust the data. That is, of course, a worrying fact. And there is a bunch more highly questionable ‘science’ besides that, which Gigo sucked down hook line and sinker, but I’ll leave that for a different thread.

And yet if anyone dares to point this out, they are anti-science for daring to question the all knowing and always honest climate scientists who are here to save us poor dumb folk from ourselves.

Slee

If I am a denialist (and we all know that is always the first word out of Gigos mouth if anyone questions his religion) for thinking that the actual data means something, then those who rely on artificial data to make their political point are conspirators.

Paul Ryan

Perhaps it does
But you insult the fly
An insect will buzz
but it will never lie

A complete lie I also showed examples unrelated to global warming and the corruption accusations were discredited many times over, the fact that you do no know that is undeniable proof that you are a wilful ignorant. And this is related to the war the republican politicians are doing to science.

As has been my experience it is clear that you started looking at idiot places for that “information”. BTW, that is a good graph, but the reality is that your information usually comes from denier sites that forget to report that scientists already do corrections to avoid getting the wrong information to their records.

That religion bit is like a Godwin in discussion like this, virtually all woo woo proponents like you do accuse the scientists of using their information just as religion does.

BTW I have seen before this sorry tactic of showing a link with no context, as anyone that would bother to check the actual context, we find that once again it is a good graph, but it is missing the corrections done, as it was pointed before, **there would be even worse warming reported if corrections had not been made. **

Looking at the cite you made by the CDIAC and looking actually at what do they say on the matter demonstrates once again how sorry your sources are.

http://cdiac.ornl.gov/faq.html

Using logic, it is clear that they already know about the graph, since it is missing the reason for the corrections, I have already my suspicions on where you got that information.

And then one can also go to the horse’s mouth and see what is around that graph:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/ushcn/ushcn.html#QUAL

And then they also report this:

http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/temp/hansen/hansen.html

So, in conclusion, you are just relying on woo woo sites that have an agenda, and it is not rare to see them use good graphs and conclude the opposite of what the organizations actually say, and this is because the denier sites already have a conclussion and then look for “facts” to fit their sorry ideas.

Since many have looked at the corrections that were made, and even sceptical scientists like Muller could not find any reason to mistrust the data already collected it is clear who is the one using artificial data (it is not the graph but the fact that you do not show the context is that then the attempt at deception is clear to all)

BTW, Muller used more station data to conclude that scientists before him did a great job in correcting the data, although he and the BEST Berkeley group reported that the warming that they got was slightly more than what NOAA and others reported before and that almost all the warming observed recently was caused by human activity.

http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/UC-climate-change-skeptic-changes-views-3748148.php

As for the likely sources for sleestak, they already tripped and fell face first on the floor.

Indeed, a quick search at the graph and references to the mythical “corrupted data” pointed at cites from contrarian sites like *Watts up with that *and favourite contrarian Steven Goddard.

So what about Goddard?

Yep, these are the blind pseudo scientists that are guiding the blind Republicans nowadays, even the real scientists the republicans rely on have conflicts of interest and/or even more woo woo to spew like Roy Spencer, from him we get the double woo woo of creationism and misrepresentation of climate science in one single package:

I’ll let **The Bad Astronomer **do the busting:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/07/29/no-new-data-does-not-blow-a-gaping-hole-in-global-warming-alarmism/

FWIW, I was thinking of nuclear power. I see from wiki that the USSR had a plant in 1954 and England had one in 1956.

At any rate, I don’t know of any serious challenges to the industrial-scientific establishment until Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring (1962). I’m characterizing the fluoridation stuff as nonserious. It gets tricky here as Carson was a solid, responsible journalist and when President Kennedy convened a panel to investigate her claims, she was vindicated. Whether she got things precisely correct is less clear, unsurprisingly. That’s the nature of responsible scholarship.

Working hypothesis: there are 2 threads here. Skepticism towards science has its origins in the bluster of industry hacks. Opposition to science exists because modern conservatives simply don’t value professionalism: basically everything is a matter of ideology or (frankly less often) faith.

Emphasis added. Interesting material. If I had passed on an argument that was as lacking as sleesak’s, I would seriously question my information sources. An example might be the late Christopher Hitchens. I didn’t have too much problem with his politics (Iraq War excepted) but I found him to be an unreliable witness. So I stopped reading him. Similarly, I don’t accept Michael Moore’s factual claims without independent corroboration. To be clear though, their arguments were nowhere near dishonest as the one’s presented by sleesak, I assume unknowingly.

But the concept of power from the atom was almost immediate - see Heinlein’s “Blowups Happen” and del Rey’s “Nerves.”

I agree about Silent Spring being a turning point. That might have been industrial versus academic science, but I’m not sure people made a distinction before that.

In support of this, look at the inane criticism of many scientists of the academic variety that they do it for the money. Some industrial science has been discredited (obviously not all or even most) and the conservatives like to pretend that academic scientists are of the same stripe.

she was a scientist who got published in the popular media.

But I think curlcoat does have something of a point (words I never thought I would type), which I think is partially due to ppor science reporting in the media. The media has a tendency to over-hype partial unconfirmed studies to conclude things way beyond the actual findings because they make good teaser lines.

It works something like this (Note: all of the studies below are just made up)

Some lab somewhere does that shows some protein and show when it is injected into rats causes a 10% increase in the likelihood of myeloma, and publishes it in some journal. It turns out that this protein is found in chocolate. Result: “FOX NEWS REPORTS THAT YOUR KIDS CANDY BAR COULD BE POISON!!! Tune in at 11:00 to find out why”

The a few months later a different lab doe some study on some enzyme and finds that it reduces incidence of melanoma in rats by 15%. This also turns out to be found in chocolate. Result “FOX NEWS REPORTS THAT A CANDY BAR COULD BE SAVE YOUR CHILD’S LIFE!!! Tune in at 11:00 to find out why”

End result, the viewer says that scientists can’t figure out whether chocolate causes cancer or chocolate prevents cancer so why should we believe them about global warming.

Indeed, and her mentioning gives us the opportunity to see another front that the majority of Republicans have in their war against science.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-09-16/news/bs-ed-rachel-carson-20120916_1_chemical-industry-pesticide-regulations-ddt

One of the most irresponsible lies ever made is the one believed by many conservatives, the one that clams that because of Carson DDT was banned and so environmentalists like her (and scientists like her) are responsible for the deaths of millions due to malaria,

You have to realize that that lie is very corrosive as it leads conservatives and specially Republicans to conclude that environmentalists are mass murderers and therefore anything is justifiable to defeat them. That leads to justify a hatred that is just short of violence.

in reality DDT was banned in some placed and restricted early because of the evidence that also confirmed what many scientists that follow evolution would had told you it was likely to happen: the insects developed resistance to the poison.

And those [del]stink[/del] think thanks are used by many Republicans today to make their sorry legislation and/or preventing the government from controlling or inspecting the long term effects of what we put in the environment.

Science reporter Peter Hadfield (AKA Potholer54) has made excellent videos regarding this, basically, and thanks to the internet it is now possible to weed out the popular press spin by asking “what is your source?”

(Why the media screw up science Part 1: Sources)

As if there is any need to report it, once again do not trust the Daily [del]Fail[/del] Mail or [del]Faux[/del] FOX News.

Unfortunately, many still depend on old time media and so we get master snake oil salesmen like Romney with a good chance of getting elected to office.

This ‘science’ thing…it can be outsourced to India/China, right?

Yes it can. And that’s exactly what’s happening.

People who think logically realize that one can disagree with a person on one or two subjects, but agree otherwise. Only the childish think that lack of agreement in one area must mean a person is an idiot, or wrong at all times.

It could be, but many older folk like me base their distrust on drugs/chemicals that have been fully released for use and later discovered to be highly harmful. Scientists told us that, say, DDT was perfectly fine to use to kill bugs, and thalidomide was perfectly safe to give to pregnant women. Creates a lack of trust in new drugs and treatments. Bigger things, like global warming, we just mostly ignore because we can’t do anything about it; we’ve heard global doom and gloom predictions before; there is no way we could verify it ourselves; and we’ll probably die before anything awful happens if it’s true.

I think this was meant as a joke, but as a scientist in industry, watching all my friends get laid off and often traveling abroad to check on the status of my experiments, yes, yes it can.

Leaving aside the issue that I was one of only a few American graduate students (of about two hundred) in my particular PhD institution, even the experiments being done on American soil are not done by Americans.

I have another few years to see something through, and then I’m out as well.

(As a more thread relevant aside: Nearly everyone I know is a scientist, and I can’t name one who is a Republican.)

It was nice of Jon Stewart to read my OP and also bring up the anti-science rhetoric of some Republicans on the Science Committee:

You Magnificent Bastards - Down-Ballot Notables

(The relevant stuff starts at 2:40.)

*"Are you sure this isn’t the House Committee **Against *Science & Technology?"

I will also note yet again that the prominent Republicans whom this is directed to on this board are nowhere to be found to defend their votes for ignorance.

I agree.

There’s not much question in my mind that while neither party is immune to scientific ignorance, in the present climate we see more policy decision-making influenced by anti-science Republicans than by anti-science Democrats.

What I would note is that even here, Democratic initiatives that are poorly supported by science are defended strongly and abandoned reluctantly, if at all. Case in point: the green grocer liberalism thread, which basically became an apologetic for the fallacy of ignorance: “You don’t know that this WON’T help, so it will.”

So it’s true that in the halls of legislature, science is attacked more effectively by Republicans.