# Republicans & Abortion; Democrats & Guns: Both are smokescreens **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-abortion-democrats-guns-both-are-smokescreens/463554 "2008-09-14T14:44:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-abortion-democrats-guns-both-are-smokescreens/463554/21 "2008-09-16T04:47:40Z")
> [@Atomicktom](#): > > Then you aren’t one of the people who frustrate me. Look, I think the morning after pill should be over-the-counter. And I can understand why gun enthusiasts oppose the assault weapons ban. All I’m asking for is a little temperance about the importance of these issues. To hear some people say it, abortion rights or gun rights are truly at stake in this election (I’m looking at you, **Argent Towers** ;)). While I think politicians would like voters to believe this to be true, I don’t think it is. I do think they are truly at stake. The Supreme Court vary narrowly ruled in favor of the correct interpretation of the 2nd Amendment and some of those fellers is old. One new liberal justice, a challenge to Heller, and the Constitution is rendered null and void. However, you might be right since 8 years of Dubya hasn’t overturned Roe v Wade. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-abortion-democrats-guns-both-are-smokescreens/463554/22 "2008-09-16T05:45:24Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > Many Democrats are doing their best to ban guns. If not outright, they use the salami technique of piling on restrictions and regulations that make life miserable for everyone except criminals. They’ve been quite inventive. In many states, every legislative session brings a new batch of bills that have to be vigorously fought just to maintain the status quo. > > What part of “shall not be infringed” don’t you understand? > > I vote and I don’t vote for gun grabbers. What he said. > [@](#): > > You are being manipulated, and are ignoring more salient issues at your peril. I’m not being manipulated. I choose what I want to believe, of my own free will, based on the positions of the politicians in question, their voting record, and the efforts of the people who speak for their political party and what they have done - not because someone is telling me what to do or manipulating me. > [@](#): > > And I can understand why gun enthusiasts oppose the assault weapons ban. All I’m asking for is a little temperance about the importance of these issues. If you can understand why we’re upset about the “assault weapons” ban, then you can understand why we have such a lack of temperance in opposing it. It’s absurd. It’s a mockery of logic and justice and the Constitution. I’m pretty sure that nobody here on this board would ever consider voting for anyone who advocated young earth creationism - even if you agreed with all of his other positions. It’s a deal-breaker issue. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-abortion-democrats-guns-both-are-smokescreens/463554/23 "2008-09-16T06:05:01Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I find myself sort of agreeing with the OP. Both areas get a knee-jerk response from people. But so what if the Dems try for gun control and the Reps overturn Roe? The laws that matter in both cases are **state** laws. Overturn roe? Abortions will still be legal in California and New York, etc. Gun control? 33 states have “Shall Issue” CCW laws. New York might ban most guns, but people in Vermont will still be able to pack heat without a license. We are a large country, and that makes us capable of fitting in all sorts of ways of doing things. Maybe so, but the Democratic Party is in favor of a _Federal_ assault weapons ban. I can’t say whether the Democrats or the Republicans are more committed to gun restrictions or anti-abortion laws, but it certainly seems to me that the Democrats have _accomplished_ more to ban guns (Clinton’s AWB and various egregiously draconian gun laws in Democrat-dominated states) than the Republicans have in actually limiting abortion. And I believe that actions speak much, much louder than words. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-abortion-democrats-guns-both-are-smokescreens/463554/24 "2008-09-16T07:01:24Z")
One look at [this thead](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=483525) reveals the very common misconceptions and ignorance that the Assault Weapons Ban thrives upon (which I view as nothing less than a very underhanded deception of the American people by politicians.) The AR-15 is called a “machine gun” by several posters. What can we take away from this? That some people assume that actual machine guns, i.e. fully-automatic weapons, are readily available? That the AR-15 depicted is one such machine gun? It’s a semi-automatic rifle, chambered in 5.56 also known as “.223.” Now, if you were to get a bolt-action rifle in that cartridge, it would be considered a “varmint rifle,” in other words, suitable for shooting prairie dogs, squirrels, and maybe coyotes. Your dad’s hunting rifle fires a more powerful cartridge. In fact, the M-16, when it was first issued, was hated by a lot of servicemen, especially seasoned veterans who preferred the more powerful .30-caliber cartridges of the M14 and the M1. They used to call it a “poodle shooter” and some of them joked that it was made by Mattel. Now, whether or not the M16 is a good combat rifle, is another argument, and both sides have their fanatical following. The point is that even the _automatic_ version of that rifle was and is considered underpowered by a lot of people. So we’ve got a semi-automatic rifle, in an arguably light cartridge, which is an “assault weapon”…because it looks scary, basically. I’d venture that the average non-gun-owning American would actually not even know that there is such thing as a semi-automatic civilian version of the M16 called the AR-15, and automatically (ha!) assume that the weapon in that video was an automatic rifle. Now, how many crimes are committed every year with rifles? Not many. Most gun crime is handgun crime. Now, of that handgun crime, how much of it is committed by CC permit holders? See where I’m going with this? Far from being a smoke-screen, these draconian gun laws are a _reality_ brought to us by Democratic politicians (AND Republican politicians who don’t do anything to fight it, such as Rudy Giuliani.) ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-abortion-democrats-guns-both-are-smokescreens/463554/25 "2008-09-16T14:20:44Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Far from being a smoke-screen, these draconian gun laws are a _reality_ brought to us by Democratic politicians (AND Republican politicians who don’t do anything to fight it, such as Rudy Giuliani.) Add GHWB to that list as well. It’s not just the D’s that I fear will continue to strip our 2nd amendment rights… ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-abortion-democrats-guns-both-are-smokescreens/463554/26 "2008-09-16T14:22:33Z")
I feel that the Right Wing holds the Pro-Life issue closer than the Left Wing holds the anti-gun issue. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-abortion-democrats-guns-both-are-smokescreens/463554/27 "2008-09-16T14:27:06Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > I feel that the Right Wing holds the Pro-Life issue closer than the Left Wing holds the anti-gun issue. I agree, but as I have said numerous times, if the Dems were to take the current gun control mantra off of their party plank and replace it with “WE WONT TAKE YOUR GUNS, NO WAY, NO HOW…” they would never lose an election. But because the party is still beholden to some of its most outspoken members, it will never be able to distance itself from that position. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-abortion-democrats-guns-both-are-smokescreens/463554/28 "2008-09-16T14:52:47Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > I agree, but as I have said numerous times, if the Dems were to take the current gun control mantra off of their party plank and replace it with “WE WONT TAKE YOUR GUNS, NO WAY, NO HOW…” they would never lose an election. But because the party is still beholden to some of its most outspoken members, it will never be able to distance itself from that position. Well, I suppose both parties have their albatross. Such are the perils of a two-party system. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Krebbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@Mr.Krebbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Krebbs)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-abortion-democrats-guns-both-are-smokescreens/463554/29 "2008-09-16T15:58:22Z")
I’ll admit it: I won’t vote for Obama because I want to keep buying so-called “assault weapons” legally. I won’t vote for McCain because of his abortion stance among a plethora of others. Myself, I have a problem with voting for politicians who aren’t in favor of freedom. That’s what this country is supposed to be about, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-abortion-democrats-guns-both-are-smokescreens/463554.md?page=1)