# Republicans aim for a lame-duck power grab in Wisconsin **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 2, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459 "2018-12-02T20:12:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/121 "2018-12-06T11:59:04Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > So because one man was elected in a state wide election Senators and Representatives are supposed to roll over and ignore the will of the districts they represent and allow Evers to do whatever he wants? They have a 63-36 majority in the lower house of their legislature. Evers can’t pass any legislation without their consent. All he can do is the normal stuff that the governor of the state gets to do. Or _could_ do, since they’ve changed his powers. > [@](#): > > This is all just part of the checks and balances of our system. It’s pretty hard ball politics, but that’s all it is, political. ‘Hardball politics’ by your definition means holding onto power against the will of the majority of the voters, by both controlling the legislature against their will, and usurping the powers of the governor, against their will. To me, that’s banana-republic stuff. This is, as I’ve repeatedly said, a refusal to engage in the peaceful transfer of power, because the power isn’t getting transferred, only an office that’s a shell of its former self. If this were happening in a Third World country, the UN would be getting election monitors in there. So if you can explain to me where the line is between ‘hardball politics’ and a banana-republic level frustration of democracy itself, I’d appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/122 "2018-12-06T12:09:31Z")
[Wisconsin Legislature Weakens Incoming Democratic Governor By Restricting His Access To Food, Water, Shelter](https://politics.theonion.com/wisconsin-legislature-weakens-incoming-democratic-gover-1830884970) The Onion, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/123 "2018-12-06T12:13:41Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Do your homework Bunky. And post Quotes of every time I’ve defended Trump. > > And what does anything he’s babbled have anything to do with what members are posting here? Now _you_ get to be uncivil? Yeah no. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/124 "2018-12-06T12:40:35Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Now _you_ get to be uncivil? Yeah no. How’s that uncivil? I’m challenging you to point out all the times I’ve defended anything Trump has said. If I have (which I don’t recall), I assure you it wasn’t when he uttered that trash talk. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/125 "2018-12-06T12:44:19Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > a refusal to engage in the peaceful transfer of power, because the power isn’t getting transferred, only an office that’s a shell of its former self. This is false and I posted a cite to it. Evers is receiving the same office that Jim Doyle received. All the legislature is attempting to do is reverse powers they gave Scott Walker. Was the office of Governor a shell when Jim Doyle was Governor? No, it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/126 "2018-12-06T12:58:53Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > How’s that uncivil? I’m challenging you to point out all the times I’ve defended anything Trump has said. If I have (which I don’t recall), I assure you it wasn’t when he uttered that trash talk. Okay, I’m going to call you Bunky from now on. Cool. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/127 "2018-12-06T13:20:03Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > This is false and I posted a cite to it. Evers is receiving the same office that Jim Doyle received. All the legislature is attempting to do is reverse powers they gave Scott Walker. Was the office of Governor a shell when Jim Doyle was Governor? No, it wasn’t. Mind posting that cite again, so I don’t have to dig it out of the thread? Or at least give the post #? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/128 "2018-12-06T13:21:08Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Well what do you expect? You don’t see a problem with a hardline power grab because “the legislature was elected to represent the constituents”. Except there seems to be no standard for that other than “we can legally get away with it”. This is another case of the notion that constitutionality is based solely on a black and white reading if the law, a notion that is, if I may be blunt, incredibly ignorant. A democratic country’s Constitution is more than just a set of top-level laws; it is also a social compact and common understanding that it is everyone’s responsibility to uphold a set of customs and traditions to ensure the smooth operation of the apparatus of state. “It’s okay because we can technically get away with it” is exactly what a person says when they no longer care about the constitutional state and instead prioritize getting their political way. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/129 "2018-12-06T13:42:56Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > That was a RIGHT thing to do, because everything Walker wanted to do was BAD. And WRONG. And EVIL. > > And if anyone thinks I don’t understand Poe’s Law or I would have put some kind of smiley to indicate that I was being sarcastic, let me assure y’all that I understand Poe’s Law just fine. Those evaluations are 100% objectively accurate and consistent with observed reality. What if the Wisconsin Republicans think that what the incoming governor promises to do is BAD, and WRONG and EVIL? Its wrong regardless of who does it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/130 "2018-12-06T14:54:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **pkbites** : > > If I see an R I don’t necessarily vote for it. Anyone know who the RINO was that voted against this? I haven’t seen it published yet. Though I just woke up due to shift work. At least start a new paragraph before contradicting yourself. You don’t blindly vote for everything Republican, you say. You just expect everyone else to. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/131 "2018-12-06T16:11:02Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > [_Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) said Thursday that Republicans are looking at giving incoming Gov. Tony Evers less say in state rules that implement state laws. **Eight years ago, Republicans handed Walker more power over those rules when he was first sworn in.** _](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/11/08/wisconsin-election-gop-may-limit-tony-evers-power-state-rules/1930025002/) Thank you for the link that supports my view that your statement was not at all accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/132 "2018-12-06T17:16:15Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Do your homework Bunky. … I’m not familiar with this term and it’s not immediately clear from some searching, but I can’t imagine it’s a term of endearment. Do not call people names in this forum. > [@Ludovic](#): > > Okay, I’m going to call you Bunky from now on. Cool. No. Don’t do that, outside the Pit at least. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/133 "2018-12-06T22:01:08Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > [_Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) said Thursday that Republicans are looking at giving incoming Gov. Tony Evers less say in state rules that implement state laws. **Eight years ago, Republicans handed Walker more power over those rules when he was first sworn in.** _](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/11/08/wisconsin-election-gop-may-limit-tony-evers-power-state-rules/1930025002/) So let me review to make sure that I have the facts straight here. 8 years ago, Republican Scott Walker was elected Governor of Wisconsin. Shortly thereafter, the Republican-controlled legislature created new laws that gave Governor Walker some powers that no Wisconsin governor had ever had previously. Then last month, Democrat Tony Evers defeated Walker in the gubernatorial election and will become the new Governor of Wisconsin early next year. However, this week the legislature voted to remove the aforementioned powers from the hands of the governor. Is this correct? If not, I’m sure you’ll tell me where I’m wrong. But if is correct, how in the hell can you justify these actions? And please don’t say it’s politics as usual, okay? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/134 "2018-12-06T23:00:36Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > The Wisconsin legislature is hardly the people’s choice. The Dems received 190,000 more votes overall, but the Reps got 63 out of 99 seats. Yeah, **pkbites**. See what happens when certain members of the legislature/state house write and sign certain laws into effect that actively seek to undermine the will of the majority of voters? Gerrymandering: No more perfect example exists to show why this effort is also wrong. [In any case, do you or anyone else ever admit to being wrong in GD?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=866802) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/135 "2018-12-06T23:12:13Z")
**pkbites** , do you have _any_ standard for whether a law is good that isn’t based on partisanship or legality? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/136 "2018-12-07T00:44:27Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m not familiar with this term and it’s not immediately clear from some searching, but I can’t imagine it’s a term of endearment. Do not call people names in this forum. > [/moderating] I may be showing my age here (which is why you are not familiar with the term) but a bunky is one who occupies the same area of a given space, such as in a barracks, or in our case, the SDMB. It is neither a term of endearment nor a term of disparagement. I fought your ignorance today. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/137 "2018-12-07T04:28:47Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Thank you for the link that supports my view that your statement was not at all accurate. WTH are you talking about? My statement is exactly accurate. The legislature gave the Governor powers that no other Governor had, and now they are rescinding them. A governor did not have these powers before Scott Walker. And at the time (2011-2012 sessions I believe) there were objections to the legislature giving him those powers. > [@Railer13](#): > > So let me review to make sure that I have the facts straight here. > > 8 years ago, Republican Scott Walker was elected Governor of Wisconsin. Shortly thereafter, the Republican-controlled legislature created new laws that gave Governor Walker some powers that no Wisconsin governor had ever had previously. > > Then last month, Democrat Tony Evers defeated Walker in the gubernatorial election and will become the new Governor of Wisconsin early next year. However, this week the legislature voted to remove the aforementioned powers from the hands of the governor. > > Is this correct? Yes, that is exactly right. > [@Railer13](#): > > But if is correct, how in the hell can you justify these actions? And please don’t say it’s politics as usual, okay? Nice of you to tell me what terms I can use to describe something. I’ll take it from a Mod (even when in their ignorance they are wrong) but not from you. It’s no more underhanded than when the Democrats got the rules bent so they could run Frank Lautenberg for Senate past the deadline for getting on the ballot. It’s just partisan politicking. What the Republicans are doing is no different than if they put a sunset clause on the legislation. All the Democrats have to do is get the majority in the legislature back and set things up to benefit them. And (to use your terms) please don’t say it won’t happen because of gerrymandering. Remember, the Republicans had won the majority before any so called gerrymandering (actually a reasonable correction) of districts occurred. Plus this thing could easily turn bad for the Republicans, even in usually safe districts. I have always contended that. I have yet to post whether or not any of this was overall worth the risk. I have only posted what the positive reasons for it are. I’ve never denied this could be a very regrettable maneuver. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/138 "2018-12-07T06:14:29Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > All the Democrats have to do is get the majority in the legislature back and set things up to benefit them. And (to use your terms) please don’t say it won’t happen because of gerrymandering. Remember, the Republicans had won the majority before any so called gerrymandering (actually a reasonable correction) of districts occurred. As noted in [this article from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/blogs/wisconsin-voter/2018/12/06/wisconsin-gerrymandering-data-shows-stark-impact-redistricting/2219092002/), I’m sorry, but that is _exactly_ the issue. The gerrymander that the Wisconsin GOP has set up means that there are a relatively small number of Democratic districts, and those are _hugely_ Democratic, while giving themselves a substantially larger number of not-as-lopsided, but still pretty-damned-safe, Republican districts. In the election last month, only five out of 99 assembly districts were decided by less than 5 percentage points. As the article notes, in order to have a reasonable chance to retake control of the legislature, the Democrats would need to win, statewide, by 9 or 10 percentage points. Under the old map, the Democrats would have have a reasonable chance to control the legislature if they had won the statewide vote by 2 or 3 percentage points. Looking at the results of last month’s vote, in order to have won the Legislature, Democratic candidates would have had to have won seats in at least 14 districts in which Walker had gotten more votes than Evers (i.e., Republican-leaning districts), including having to have won at least 9 districts that Walker won by at least 5 percentage points. I won’t say that “it won’t happen,” but the GOP has very cunningly stacked the deck so that it’s pretty damned unlikely any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/139 "2018-12-07T07:34:20Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > All the Democrats have to do is get the majority in the legislature back and set things up to benefit them. And (to use your terms) please don’t say it won’t happen because of gerrymandering. Remember, the Republicans had won the majority before any so called gerrymandering (actually a reasonable correction) of districts occurred. This statement alone… you calling the gerrymandering in Wisconsin, “a reasonable correction” tells me there is absolutely no point in discussing this with you further. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459/140 "2018-12-07T07:49:06Z")
> [@Fugazi](#): > > This statement alone… you calling the gerrymandering in Wisconsin, “a reasonable correction” tells me there is absolutely no point in discussing this with you further. It brings to mind thoughts I keep having about [fascist gaslighting](https://youtu.be/Sx4BVGPkdzk?t=1152), honestly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-aim-for-a-lame-duck-power-grab-in-wisconsin/825459.md?page=8)