Republicans and Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan

[Sinaijon]

@Richard_Parker

If Al Gore was out there telling you not to eat beans in order to prevent global warming, you would rightly ask whether he was interested in stopping global warming or whether he just had something against beans.

More than likely, I’d have an explanation why Al Gore has such bad gas.

[furt]

@Squink

There you go, dissing the F-22 and Marine One.

Both of which are prime examples of wasteful militray spending.

There are plenty of economic conservatives who have no problem decrying waste in military spending.

[Grumman]

@smiling_bandit

Although if you want to know one of the large, I would overhaul the entire military procurement system. They keep blowing billions on weapon systems they wind up scrapping. And the process needs to be cut off from politicians, who keep pressuring them to buy crap from somebody’s home district.

From what I have heard on another board about other systems, I agree. Apparently politicians are not familiar with the idea that changes to an engineering project become exponentially more expensive the later you implement the change. And then when their demands have pushed the cost too high, they scrap the whole thing.

[Squink]

@furt

Both of which are prime examples of wasteful militray spending.

Yup, I just wanted some refs to concrete examples in here.
Airborne laser, star wars and possibly naval railgun could fit in here as well.

[yorick73]

@Captain_Carrot

No, I mean that they’re telling their constituents about the good things the bill will do for them. They’re not bragging about voting against it.

Do you have a cite for this? What republican is singing the praises of a bill they voted against?

[smiling_bandit]

@Squink

Yup, I just wanted some refs to concrete examples in here.
Airborne laser, star wars and possibly naval railgun could fit in here as well.

Actually, I disagree with those. Experimental science tests and proof-of-concept work is probably worthwhile. And they certainly have worked to some degree.

[YogSothoth]

I think that the Republicans are simply taking douchebaggery to another level

There are exactly 4 recourses for them:

1. Support the bill. It works, they get some credit but Obama gets most
2. Support the bill. It fails, they get blamed for it too
3. Dont support the bill. It works, but they stick to lying and badmouthing it like they’ve always done. Strengthen their base
4. Dont support the bill. It fails, they get credit for being financial geniuses

I think that their mindset basically breaks down into those 4 options. If they support it, it becomes a bad or worst outcome for them. But if they hedge their bets and dont support it, they will either maintain the status quo (they think) or they’ll be vindicated

I can say with all seriousness that there is not a single Republican in the house that isnt a partisan hack and an ass. Even if one doesnt think the bill will do much good, at least its something, at least it has their favorite tax cuts, and at least it is a good faith effort to restore the economy. This is a situation in which they should have voted for it even if they disagreed. If you’re falling out of an airplane with no parachute, you might as well flap your arms, its not going to hurt

[Squink]

@smiling_bandit

Experimental science tests and proof-of-concept work is probably worthwhile.

However, deployment before proof of concept is high idiocy. That’s what’s been going on with missile defense these last few years. Airborne laser,might become a major boondoggle shortly, while I have faith in the Navy’s ability to screw up their railgun program,

[Chronos]

2. How can they criticize Obama’s plan when their plan not only arguably failed to meet its goals, but had few, if any, strings attached to the money and little oversight as to how the money is spent?

I’ve actually heard my dad argue that when giving wagonloads of money to Big Business, the Capitalist way of doing it is to just give it to them no strings attached, to let the market decide what best to do with it. Not also that to my dad, Capitalist is exactly synonymous with Good, Christian, and Democracy: It is absolutely impossible to have any of them without the others.

[Captain_Carrot]

@yorick73

Do you have a cite for this? What republican is singing the praises of a bill they voted against?

Blaine Luetkemyer, Don Young, Ken Calvert, John Mica: http://dccc.org/blog/archives/hypocrisy_alert_house_republicans_take_credit_for_the_economic_recovery_bil/
Christopher Bond: http://www.connecttristates.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=261224
Pete Hoekstra, Leonard Lance: http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/02/18/more-gop-support-of-the-stimulus/

[lee]

@smiling_bandit

They keep blowing billions on weapon systems they wind up scrapping.

You say this like it is a bad thing. I think ideally, we would end up scrapping all weapons systems without them ever having been used. That is not to say that would mean all weapons systems proved useless. They could have been serving as a deterrent to aggression.

[smiling_bandit]

@lee

You say this like it is a bad thing. I think ideally, we would end up scrapping all weapons systems without them ever having been used. That is not to say that would mean all weapons systems proved useless. They could have been serving as a deterrent to aggression.

If things worked that well, we’d never had had to scrap the system. Or build it in the first place.

[Ocean_Annie]

@furt

Which Plan of Bush’s are you referring to? So far as I know the only plan he currently has is for a new kitchen.

If you’re talking about his early-00s stimulus packages,

1. Bush’s plans were far, FAR smaller than the current one. One may like apples but balk at eating a truckload.
2. Bush emphasized tax cuts, with the most benefit going to those paying the most taxes. Obama’s includes lots of spending, and many of the the tax cuts go to those already paying comparatively low taxes. Basic philosophical difference.

Bush didn’t have a problem spending public funds while in office and left a large tab for public record. Not only have taxpayers been misled about the actual cost of the Iraq War, the estimated cost of Bush’s tax cuts have increased to 2 trillion. Tax cuts are spending, and Bush’s tax cuts are funded with borrowed money. The fact that Bush radically cut taxes when he needed to fund a war is beyond reason.

Here are some facts about the Bush tax cuts.

According to the IRS data, for the 400 with the highest income in 2006, 62.75% of their income on average came from capital gains. Another 7.5% of that income on average came from dividends. Cite

In 2006, the 400 richest Americans had an average income of $263 million, a 23 percent jump over the previous year, the Internal Revenue Service says. That same year, the very wealthy paid, on average, an effective tax rate of 17 percent. Cite

Making permanent the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts and AMT relief would have a direct cost of $3.7 trillion over the next ten years (fiscal year 2009 through 2018), according to Joint Committee on Taxation and Congressional Budget Office estimates. Cite

In 2006, households in the bottom fifth of the income spectrum received tax cuts (averaging $20) that raised their after-tax incomes by an average of 0.3 percent…

…Households with incomes exceeding $1 million received an average tax cut of $118,000 in 2006, which represented an increase of 6.0 percent in their after-tax income. That is more than double the percentage increase received by the middle fifth of households. CBO

[lee]

@smiling_bandit

If things worked that well, we’d never had had to scrap the system. Or build it in the first place.

Some things have worked nearly this well. Our whole nuclear missile arsenal has worked this way so far. I don’t know that we needed so very many missiles, but I can see why we thought we needed some.

[smiling_bandit]

@lee

Some things have worked nearly this well. Our whole nuclear missile arsenal has worked this way so far. I don’t know that we needed so very many missiles, but I can see why we thought we needed some.

Which is part of my point. Russia and America did not want to get into a direct fight. We probably could have done the same without the missiles.

[yorick73]

@Captain_Carrot

Blaine Luetkemyer, Don Young, Ken Calvert, John Mica: http://dccc.org/blog/archives/hypocrisy_alert_house_republicans_take_credit_for_the_economic_recovery_bil/
Christopher Bond: http://www.connecttristates.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=261224
Pete Hoekstra, Leonard Lance: http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/02/18/more-gop-support-of-the-stimulus/

It’s hard to say that they are praising this bill from the limited quotes. No doubt there are things in there that they support and are pushing people to take advantage of them. But, any Republican who is supporting this after the vote needs to be challenged in their next primary.

[ElvisL1ves]

Starting with the ones who asked Obama for his autograph before voting No?