# Republicans are ALWAYS the REAL victims! :rolleyes: **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506 "2018-10-25T17:26:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/21 "2018-10-25T18:58:20Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Because victim hood conveys value. It gives you both sympathy and status. It can give you protection against some criticisms, an it can give you an authority to speak out on topics others can’t because of your “perspective.” It can give you an authority. > > It can be very very useful. It can be very attractive. Kinda like claiming to have waterboarded yourself so you could say how awful it is instead of accepting what EVERYONE else was saying about it? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/22 "2018-10-25T19:03:21Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > If you think that, then why did you ask this: I was hoping you or somebody else would say it. The fact is that victim hood does convey those things, because society grants them to victims. I can think of no reason why this should be so. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/23 "2018-10-25T19:06:46Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Kinda like claiming to have waterboarded yourself so you could say how awful it is instead of accepting what EVERYONE else was saying about it? > > CMC fnord! No. It’s kind of hard to claim victim hood about something you do to yourself deliberately. What that was was attention whoring, not victim hood. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/24 "2018-10-25T19:10:34Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I was hoping you or somebody else would say it. > > The fact is that victim hood does convey those things, because society grants them to victims. > > I can think of no reason why this should be so. Maybe, but I wouldn’t value someone more because they were a victim. I might have sympathy, but I wouldn’t say “Well, he/she was a victim, therefore they are better suited to be a Congressman or whatever” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/25 "2018-10-25T19:11:23Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I was hoping you or somebody else would say it. Uh, you asked a question you felt you already knew the answer to because you were hoping that somebody else would express your own opinion? Ok, whatever. Back on topic, I think complaints about liberal “incivility” from conservatives who’ve been jeering “fuck your feelings” at “libtards” also fall into this category. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/26 "2018-10-25T19:15:35Z")
And actually i’m Kind of proud of that! I became internet famous over that, and got emails from journalists wanting to see me and interview me over that thread, including the WSJ. The best thing though was that I started a trend. I wouldn’t do it again or be interviewed about it, so several journalists went out and got waterboarded on tv after that. It became a thing for a while. And, I would like to think that in some small way, that brought attention to the very real fact that it is torture, and possibly limited or ceased it’s use in some circumstances. I started the whole thing. I was the first. It’s awesome. I actually changed the world for the better, even if it was just a little bit, while goofing off on the internet. Thanks for bringing that up! ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/27 "2018-10-25T19:16:53Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Maybe, but I wouldn’t value someone more because they were a victim. I might have sympathy, but I wouldn’t say “Well, he/she was a victim, therefore they are better suited to be a Congressman or whatever” Well, good! Me too. But I do sense that that is happening to some degree. Don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/28 "2018-10-25T19:18:32Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > So, what is the ethic focused on here? > > Who is the bigger victim? > > Seems like a shitty criteria. When you first came back, you didn’t seem to want to be disingenuous. You offered long, thoughtful statements about the subjects actually being brought up. Sure, I pointed out flaws, but at least you seemed to be trying to engage rationally. Now you’re trying basic bullshit tactics. Short statements to make it look like you’re winning, while trying to shift the conversation away from the actual topic. The OP pointed out that a Republican was claiming fake victimhood, so you try to attack the OP for bringing up the concept. Nevermind he only brought it up because the Republican did. And, yes, part of the point was just to piss off the OP so they’d attack you, again distracting from the topic of the thread. Let me make this fucking clear: we’re not idiots here. You can’t pull this shit. Even if some people fall for it, others will point out your deceit. Engage honestly, or don’t engage at all. Or, well, be treated like **octopus** –ironically a poster who likes to pretend to be the victim. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/29 "2018-10-25T19:21:47Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > But I do sense that that is happening to some degree. Don’t you? No. Except of course in the case of something like granting refugee status, where the severity of somebody’s victimization is **supposed** to be a factor in the decision. I’m not seeing anybody making the case that the mere fact of having been a victim automatically gives someone more claim to something **that has nothing to do with their victimization**. Can you give some specific examples of where you “sense that that is happening”? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/30 "2018-10-25T19:23:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Uh, you asked a question you felt you already knew the answer to because you were hoping that somebody else would express your own opinion? > > Ok, whatever. > > Back on topic, I think complaints about liberal “incivility” from conservatives who’ve been jeering “fuck your feelings” at “libtards” also fall into this category. Yes. I agree. Where we disagree is that this is one of these things that is not a liberal/conservative thing, but a human thing. Victim hood - people against me don’t know how I feel, and are insensitive to what I am going through. People who are against me, don’t deserve sympathy and understanding, and their feelings are not legitimate as they serve a bad end. This is a human thing, not a political thing. We all feel this way. Another one is the whole rape/abuse of women issue. As far as I can tell there is no correlation between a man’s politics and whether or not he is a sexual predator, yet we all like to pretend it’s indicative when the other dide does it. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/31 "2018-10-25T19:32:11Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > When you first came back, you didn’t seem to want to be disingenuous. You offered long, thoughtful statements about the subjects actually being brought up. Sure, I pointed out flaws, but at least you seemed to be trying to engage rationally. > > Now you’re trying basic bullshit tactics. Short statements to make it look like you’re winning, while trying to shift the conversation away from the actual topic. The OP pointed out that a Republican was claiming fake victimhood, so you try to attack the OP for bringing up the concept. Nevermind he only brought it up because the Republican did. > > And, yes, part of the point was just to piss off the OP so they’d attack you, again distracting from the topic of the thread. > > Let me make this fucking clear: we’re not idiots here. You can’t pull this shit. Even if some people fall for it, others will point out your deceit. > > Engage honestly, or don’t engage at all. Or, well, be treated like **octopus** –ironically a poster who likes to pretend to be the victim. Your critique of my debating style is not interesting to me, so i’ll Address the part that you are missing that is. Some asshole politician acting like an asshole is not interesting. It is like bitching about the rain. What is interesting though is what he is being an asshole about, which is victimhood. It has enough political capital that politicians are willing to fight and debate about their victim status in order to claim it (whether actual or fraudulent.) Which is interesting and pit worthy because, in my opinion it doesn’t rationally mean anything, but we are not questioning that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/32 "2018-10-25T19:32:57Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Another one is the whole rape/abuse of women issue. As far as I can tell there is no correlation between a man’s politics and whether or not he is a sexual predator, yet we all like to pretend it’s indicative when the other dide does it. I agree with this. But there is a difference, in the last year or two (not much before then), how the “two sides” respond when one of their own is credibly accused of sexual assault. The Democrats have, finally, begun to actually respond with decency and care and hold their own responsible, in general. The Republicans have not, in general. Most Republicans in office (and most of their supporters) continue to support and celebrate a man who bragged about sexual assault and violating the consent of women, and has been credibly accused by multiple women, as well as refusing to fully investigate credible allegations against their SCOTUS nominee. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/33 "2018-10-25T19:36:06Z")
Another one for the books: [Republican Congressman Claimed There Was a ‘Racial War’ in America Started by Blacks on Whites](https://www.newsweek.com/minnesota-republican-jason-lewis-racist-blacks-entitlement-mentality-1035504) > [@](#): > > Republican Congressman Jason Lewis of Minnesota […] claimed black people have an “entitlement mentality” and warned that were waging a “racial war” against white people. > > “There’s a cultural problem in the African-American community that is leading to this. The entitlement mentality,” Lewis said […] > > Lewis, who is is also up for re-election this year, claimed such a mentality led to violence in the black community. > > “You’re a victim. It’s OK to hate […]” > > Lewis’s disparaging comments about black people did not end there. He has falsely claimed that “the real victims of most racial violence are not are not members of the minorities in America. They are white people.” > > In one instance, he claimed there was a “racial war” already ongoing in the United States. See, black people shouldn’t have an “entitlement mentality” about being “victims” just because of little stuff like slavery and lynchings and Jim Crow and persistent racism and racial discrimination. But it’s totally legit for white people to think of themselves as “the real victims” of a “racial war”! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/34 "2018-10-25T19:38:27Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Well, good! Me too. > > But I do sense that that is happening to some degree. Don’t you? Sure. That’s why he’s claiming to be a victim. Like I said, it’s assholish. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/35 "2018-10-25T19:39:27Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > No. Except of course in the case of something like granting refugee status, where the severity of somebody’s victimization is **supposed** to be a factor in the decision. > > I’m not seeing anybody making the case that the mere fact of having been a victim automatically gives someone more claim to something **that has nothing to do with their victimization**. Can you give some specific examples of where you “sense that that is happening”? You already pointed out his deliberate dishonesty and attempt to hijack the thread. There is no need to continue with his hijack, or point out how no one has said something. Of course they haven’t: that’s him being dishonest. I post about how this board doesn’t fall for this shit. Please don’t make a liar out of me. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/36 "2018-10-25T19:45:14Z")
**Scylla** , what has changed in your life? You went from being an interesting and funny writer to someone who wastes his time defending assholes. Seriously. I don’t understand. I’m fine with conservative views. I am very fiscally conservative. But the Republican party has become the party of the stupid, not the party of conservatives. And you are pretty much just posting to defend that. What happened? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/37 "2018-10-25T19:49:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I agree with this. But there is a difference, in the last year or two (not much before then), how the “two sides” respond when one of their own is credibly accused of sexual assault. The Democrats have, finally, begun to actually respond with decency and care and hold their own responsible, in general. The Republicans have not, in general. Most Republicans in office (and most of their supporters) continue to support and celebrate a man who bragged about sexual assault and violating the consent of women, and has been credibly accused by multiple women, as well as refusing to fully investigate credible allegations against their SCOTUS nominee. I watched every second of the Blasey/Kavanaugh hearings twice. The accusation was not credible enough to be a reasonable factor. I feel confident that I would apply the same standard had he been a Democratic nominee. It was played very much like a last minute smear by the Democrats, and I think that the way they used and treated Ford was really shitty. Trump is very problematic. No question. He is horrible to women. He is pretty obvious about it. No way around that. You seem to view this as evolutionary, like the Democrats are getting better and the Republicans are getting worse. I doubt that. I think if Clinton were in office, the Democrats would be treating him the way they did when he was. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/38 "2018-10-25T19:57:49Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > **Scylla** , what has changed in your life? > > You went from being an interesting and funny writer to someone who wastes his time defending assholes. > > Seriously. I don’t understand. I’m fine with conservative views. I am very fiscally conservative. But the Republican party has become the party of the stupid, not the party of conservatives. And you are pretty much just posting to defend that. > > What happened? I don’t post funny stuff online because it gets stolen. The people who steal it occasionally get caught and try to defend themselves by suggesting I stole it from them. I just write those things for myself. And, I’m really not defending Republicans/conservatives, at least not as my mission. I am trying to go after myopic political viewpoints. You know, reopen the dialogue, promote healthy self-analysis and an open criticism to one’s own viewpoints, a sympathy to opposing viewpoints, the realization that we live in the best of times, agree on 90% of things, should be greatful, etc etc. Basically, I am trying to heal the political rift and bring the country together again. How have you been? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/39 "2018-10-25T20:06:42Z")
It’s rain, seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506/40 "2018-10-25T20:07:46Z")
Stop dog-piling on Scylla. It’s not his fault that his mom smoked too much crack while pregnant with him, but that’s not _her_ fault since she was recovering from a beating from her pimp and had to self-medicate because she lacked access to an affordable health-insurance option, so blame the Democrats! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-always-the-real-victims-rolleyes/823506.md?page=3)