# Republicans are taking away my unemployment for my own good. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823 "2013-12-08T15:44:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/41 "2013-12-09T00:46:12Z")
I know the feelings that **Happy Lendervedder** is experiencing. I found employment, but not before going through what he’s going through. Laying awake at night wondering what’s going to happen. Watching your bank accounts get lower every month. Counting the days till they hit zero, and not having a clue what happens after that. “Terror” is not too strong a word for those feelings. I can’t imagine that there are many people who relish the situation or are willing to remain in it simply because of unemployment payments that slow (not stop) the descent to bankruptcy. The idea that such payments discourage large numbers of people from finding work is difficult for me to accept. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/42 "2013-12-09T00:51:08Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > This is a perfect example of the mental defect that is Libertarian thinking. > > I did it, therefore, everyone else can. And that’s a perfect example of a logical fallacy. Two fallacies, actually. 1. The idea that people should think about self-employment is neither unique to nor essential to Libertarian thinking. 2. I never said everyone else can. I offered it as an alternative. But frankly, I do think it’s a good idea for every to consider at some point in their lives. I never liked the idea of being a corporate drone. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/43 "2013-12-09T01:00:55Z")
Turns out research shows that [even very generous unemployment benefits generally don’t keep people from looking for work](http://billmoyers.com/2013/12/04/study-unemployment-benefits-dont-discourage-people-from-finding-work/). There will always be slackers regardless of what you do, but it just makes sense to help give a lifeline to people and assist them in not losing their homes, not falling through the cracks, not becoming homeless. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/44 "2013-12-09T01:03:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And that’s a perfect example of a logical fallacy. Two fallacies, actually. > > 1. The idea that people should think about self-employment is neither unique to nor essential to Libertarian thinking. > > 2. I never said everyone else can. I offered it as an alternative. But frankly, I do think it’s a good idea for every to consider at some point in their lives. I never liked the idea of being a corporate drone. YMMV. So someone with little financial security and likely little to no background or knowledge running a business should risk it all. And who catches them [when they fail](http://www.businessinsider.com/small-business-owners-are-optimistic-2013-6)? > [@](#): > > Small business failure rates vary depending on where the statistics are coming from, **but Carroll said that generally 50 to 70 percent fail within the first 18 months.** > > But Carroll said small business owners are generally confident people who think they’re in control of their future. And these are people who think they know what they’re doing and willing to take the risk. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/45 "2013-12-09T01:15:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And that’s a perfect example of a logical fallacy. Two fallacies, actually. > > 1. The idea that people should think about self-employment is neither unique to nor essential to Libertarian thinking. > > 2. I never said everyone else can. I offered it as an alternative. But frankly, I do think it’s a good idea for every to consider at some point in their lives. I never liked the idea of being a corporate drone. YMMV. Self-employment is the riskiest option out there, though. You not only have to have a marketable skill to sell, but you also have to have great business acumen, start-up capital, business contacts, and the ability to weather the vagaries of the market. None of this is easy for a single person. It’s really hard for a person who is supporting a family. There is a much better alternative to being a corporate drone. Like being a civil servant. Our pockets aren’t fat, but we do (as of today) enjoy some job security. But I imagine the OP has already considered this, because anyone who has been unemployed for a long time and has two brain cells to rub together has no doubt researched every avenue out there. Including self-employment. What makes you think the OP has not heard “be your own boss!” a million times before? That’s really not original, earth-shattering advice, you know. That is what the rich and fortunate love to tell the not-so-rich and less fortunate so that they can brag about themselves on the sly. It makes for a good soundbite, but it’s really not practical advice for most people. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/46 "2013-12-09T01:48:16Z")
The length of unemployment benefits should be tied to the number of “real” jobs available. Qualifications aside, there aren’t nearly enough jobs for the people looking. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/47 "2013-12-09T01:55:57Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Self-employment is the riskiest option out there, though. You not only have to have a marketable skill to sell, but you also have to have great business acumen, start-up capital, business contacts, and the ability to weather the vagaries of the market. None of this is easy for a single person. It’s really hard for a person who is supporting a family. Well, the OP has told us he has a college degree and 13 years of experience in a professional position. Sounds like he’s a very good candidate. Besides, he’s talking about learning a trade, and I can guarantee you there are thousands of tradesmen out there who are self-employed and who have had little or no training in business, and little or no capital start with. Do you think Jack the Plumber is a business whiz? I pay someone to keep my books. I could do it myself, I suppose, but really don’t care to. The woman who does this for me is 25 years old, no college degree, but she knows QuickBooks inside and out. And she’s 100% dependable. Trust me, though, she isn’t Jack Welch. The lady I pay to clean my house once a week can’t speak English. But you want to hire her, too? Forget it-- she’s fully booked, as one of my acquaintances found out last month when I referred her to him. She gets $15 - 20/hour, mostly cash. But again, it’s one alternative to consider. > [@](#): > > There is a much better alternative to being a corporate drone. Like being a civil servant. Our pockets aren’t fat, but we do (as of today) enjoy some job security. But I imagine the OP has already considered this, because anyone who has been unemployed for a long time and has two brain cells to rub together has no doubt researched every avenue out there. Including self-employment. I won’t argue with that. It’s another alternative. > [@](#): > > What makes you think the OP has not heard “be your own boss!” a million times before? That’s really not original, earth-shattering advice, you know. That is what the rich and fortunate love to tell the not-so-rich and less fortunate so that they can brag about themselves on the sly. It makes for a good soundbite, but it’s really not practical advice for most people. Well, I was responding a post, typical in this thread, bemoaning the lack of good paying jobs being created by corporations. I guess you can bitch and moan about that if it makes you (the generic you) feel better, or you can try and take your fate more in your own hands. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/48 "2013-12-09T02:00:49Z")
My husband just got laid off on Friday. Unemployment will pay him less than half what he was earning, so he does not plan to sit around and lap up the luxury, especially since we were pretty much existing paycheck to paycheck as it was. I have no idea what else I can cut. Lousy timing with Christmas in two weeks. I hear ya Happy and I’m with you. The income disparity and lack of decent jobs is terribly disheartening. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/49 "2013-12-09T02:13:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Do you think Jack the Plumber is a business whiz? If you mean Joe the Plumber, he neither owned a business and was not licensed as a plumber. He was an employee and operated under his boss’ license. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/50 "2013-12-09T02:16:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, the OP has told us he has a college degree and 13 years of experience in a professional position. Sounds like he’s a very good candidate. A professional could mean anything, though. There are plenty of professionals that don’t have skills that lend themselves to self-employment. > [@](#): > > Besides, he’s talking about learning a trade, and I can guarantee you there are thousands of tradesmen out there who are self-employed and who have had little or no training in business, and little or no capital start with. Yeah, and most of them are struggling right now. A lot of them are saying “fuck it” and closing down shop so they can go back to working for someone else. For lots of reasons. > [@](#): > > Do you think Jack the Plumber is a business whiz? Whiz? Not necessarily. But is it easier to be Jack the Independent Plumber or Jack Who Works for a Plumbing Company? The answer must be yes, since there are a lot more of the latter than the former. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/51 "2013-12-09T03:05:00Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > A professional could mean anything, though. There are plenty of professionals that don’t have skills that lend themselves to self-employment. > > Yeah, and most of them are struggling right now. A lot of them are saying “fuck it” and closing down shop so they can go back to working for someone else. For lots of reasons. > > Whiz? Not necessarily. But is it easier to be Jack the Independent Plumber or Jack Who Works for a Plumbing Company? The answer must be yes, since there are a lot more of the latter than the former. But we’re told that there are no Plumbing openings for Jack who works for a Plumbing Company. So, what to do? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/52 "2013-12-09T03:08:10Z")
Idunno. Unemployment insurance? Nah … that would be un-American. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/53 "2013-12-09T03:25:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But we’re told that there are no Plumbing openings for Jack who works for a Plumbing Company. So, what to do? If there are no jobs at Plumbing Company, that suggests there’s not a high demand for plumbers or plumbing. So I would seriously consider whether or not I wanted to keep doing the plumbing thing. I certainly wouldn’t consider opening my own plumbing business. Not when I have kids to feed. Are we supposed to sacrifice groceries and utilities so I can have enough money to get started? I could forgo these things if it were just myself. It just wouldn’t be a smart decision if I had kids in the mix. Poverty resulting from failed entrepreneurial endeavors isn’t any less miserable than poverty due to laziness. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/54 "2013-12-09T03:29:29Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If there are no jobs at Plumbing Company, that suggests there’s not a high demand for plumbers or plumbing. So I would seriously consider whether or not I wanted to keep doing the plumbing thing. > > I certainly wouldn’t consider opening my own plumbing business. Not when I have kids to feed. Are we supposed to sacrifice groceries and utilities so I can have enough money to get started? I could forgo these things if it were just myself. It just wouldn’t be a smart decision if I had kids in the mix. Poverty resulting from failed entrepreneurial endeavors isn’t any less miserable than poverty due to laziness. Who said he should open a plumbing business? Maybe he learns to be an electrician. You can always think of 1,000 reasons not to do something, but when push comes to shove, and you have no alternatives, then it’s time to be creative. And if every job is taken in your area, then it’s time to move. But it’s never time to give up. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/55 "2013-12-09T03:30:30Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Idunno. Unemployment insurance? For how long? Do you want to put your fate in the hands of Congressional Republicans? I wouldn’t. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/56 "2013-12-09T03:34:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Who said he should open a plumbing business? Maybe he learns to be an electrician. > > You can always think of 1,000 reasons not to do something, but when push comes to shove, and you have no alternatives, then it’s time to be creative. And if every job is taken in your area, then it’s time to move. But it’s never time to give up. YMMV. Who pays for electrician school? Uncle Sam, or the (hypothetical) guy out of work? How does (hypothetical unemployed guy) feed his kids while he’s at electrician school? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/57 "2013-12-09T03:36:28Z")
Well, I’m not a plumber, so I don’t exactly know. But, unless I misunderstood your question it was something along the lines of, “what is a plumber to do if he can’t get a job as a plumber?” And despite the fact that he could, “just create his own job (somehow)” as you’ve done, I’ve concluded his only recourse is the un-American Unemployment Insurance option, or not feeding his children, losing his house and dying. Buy your mileage may also vary. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/58 "2013-12-09T03:36:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Who said he should open a plumbing business? Maybe he learns to be an electrician. > > You can always think of 1,000 reasons not to do something, but when push comes to shove, and you have no alternatives, then it’s time to be creative. And if every job is taken in your area, then it’s time to move. But it’s never time to give up. YMMV. Would you be in support of extending unemployment insurance payments to people who are re-training themselves? I’m not at all averse to people thinking big and being creative. But you can’t possibly expect people to do this if they are just hanging by a thread, like the OP is. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/59 "2013-12-09T03:47:30Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > My dad, a lifelong republican who balked every time the democrats wanted to extend unemployment benefits, decided that it was worth it for him personally to stay on unemployment for as long as possible because he was getting more money than any minimum wage jobs he could qualify for. > > I asked him, “didn’t you always tell me that we never should support long term unemployment benefits because it encourages people not to go out and get a job?” And he just replied, “Well, I’m a recipient now.” Is that a problem of low wages or is the unemployment benefit too high? Min wage should never be less than the dole, whoever thought that up was dumb. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/60 "2013-12-09T03:51:18Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Well, I’m not a plumber, so I don’t exactly know. But, unless I misunderstood your question it was something along the lines of, “what is a plumber to do if he can’t get a job as a plumber?” You misunderstood my question. Probably because there is a tendency here to focus on the negative. > [@](#): > > And despite the fact that he could, “just create his own job (somehow)” as you’ve done, I’ve concluded his only recourse is the un-American Unemployment Insurance option, or not feeding his children, losing his house and dying. Buy your mileage may also vary. And yet we’ve established that said unemployment insurance is simply not available. What do you do? Focus on all the things that you can’t do, or put your efforts towards focusing of the things you can do? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823.md?page=4)