# Republicans are taking away my unemployment for my own good. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823 "2013-12-08T15:44:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/101 "2013-12-09T18:44:50Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’m sure you don’t, but if you get two roughly equivalent applicants, one who has been unemployed two weeks and the other unemployed for a year, wouldn’t you wonder if the long term guy had some hidden flaw? > > People who are fully qualified, like this guy was, still get jobs - eventually. > When I started 32 years ago getting laid off was a black mark. People assumed you got fired for cause. No longer. Lots of hiring managers have gone through this themselves, or seen good people in their company laid off. That’s a plus at least. But the bias against the long term unemployed is real. Actually, no, but that’s just me. The only prejudice I would have for the long term unemployed is that he was more than ok with not working, vs. a lack of skills. If he’s ok with not working, than he’s ok with half assing it. So I guess that would be the only flaw, but it might be a deal breaker. Here’s the deal. I am surrounded by people who HAVE to work for their own mental stability. Whether it’s volunteering, taking on new skills, going back to school, learning a new hobby, fixing their house, fixing cars for their kids, snow blowing the neighbors driveway, coaching, or reading voraciously. So even if they were unemployed for a year, if they demonstrated a continuous drive to improve themselves and/or the world, I would be MORE likely to hire them than the two week guy. Maybe that’s my fatal flaw. And question to the OP, you’ve mentioned not taking a swing shift, not taking a menial job, not having the wife work, not giving up the boys’ gymnastics. If there was no UI, what would you do? Honestly-what would you do? I am not picking on you, I feel for you, and I’ve seen a lot of people in your position-I know it sucks. Most of them look like they got hit with a Mack truck, But you have to prepare for NO ONE helping you. No one, ever. Once you get past that mental hurdle, you can than start making the really hard decisions. Put everything on that table, tear it apart, put it back together. Train yourself how to deal with adversity. If someone/something lends a hand, great, but never count on it. Ever. This will well prepare you for the next time you lose your job, or the car gets totaled, or you get sued by some crazy ass. We were all sold a bill of goods-Get your degree, get your masters, become an entrepreneur, buy a house, buy a car, work for a Fortune 500, work for the government. Whatever those items were, the world has changed. It will continue to change, no matter how much we kick and scream and stomp our feet and call it unfair. You have been given the opportunity to learn this firsthand. Take advantage of this opportunity now, and be more deliberate in your life. Please don’t take this as a “bootstrap” speech; it’s not, not at all. bootstrap speeches are counter productive and annoying. Please don’t casually disregard this either-it’s meant with the best of intentions. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/102 "2013-12-09T18:45:19Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The length of time one allows UI is not the point. The point is that cutting off UI is not intended to directly benefit the unemployed worker, except in the fevered mind of Rand Paul. Again, this is not news because he doesn’t want to extend UI, it’s news because he thinks extending it will do a “disservice” to those workers. It’s “news” that Rand Paul says something controversial? Hmm. I thought that was just another day in Wash DC. > [@](#): > > Cutting off UI does not “encourage employment”. Our unemployment problem is not caused by people refusing to look for work, and is not going to be fixed by making the unemployed more desperate. > > I don’t recall who first said this, but I think it is very insightful take on Job Creators. “Companies do not hire people because they have money that needs spending. Companies hire people because they have work that needs doing.” > > Unemployment requires a corollary - “Companies do not hire people because there are workers that need hiring. Companies hire people because they have customers that need something.” > > Cutting the income of 1.4 million people will not result in more hiring, because you’re getting rid of 1.4 million customers, who no longer buy anything but absolute essentials. And yet that is always going to be true. Your argument is basically saying there is never an appropriate time to cut unemployment benefits. However, I think it’s naive to believe that people will act in exactly the same manner and consider all the same options whether they are on UI or not. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/103 "2013-12-09T18:51:23Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The length of time one allows UI is not the point. The point is that cutting off UI is not intended to directly benefit the unemployed worker, except in the fevered mind of Rand Paul. Again, this is not news because he doesn’t want to extend UI, it’s news because he thinks extending it will do a “disservice” to those workers. > > Cutting off UI does not “encourage employment”. Our unemployment problem is not caused by people refusing to look for work, and is not going to be fixed by making the unemployed more desperate. > > I don’t recall who first said this, but I think it is very insightful take on Job Creators. “Companies do not hire people because they have money that needs spending. Companies hire people because they have work that needs doing.” > > Unemployment requires a corollary - “Companies do not hire people because there are workers that need hiring. Companies hire people because they have customers that need something.” > > Cutting the income of 1.4 million people will not result in more hiring, because you’re getting rid of 1.4 million customers, who no longer buy anything but absolute essentials. I think that’s a very good point. Unemployment money generally goes straight back into the economy rather than being saved or invested off-shore. Though gymnastics classes don’t exactly count as a necessity. That’s the kind of thing you do have to cut back on, as an individual, when times are tough. Sucks for the gymnastics tutors, of course. Fisha, I don’t think anyone was saying that you should close your company. It’s a bit of a stretch to interpret any post that way when everyone’s saying that it’s hard to be unemployed. Just that, if you did have to close your company, you would actually be entitled to unemployment benefits too. Otherwise all the advice about going self-employed would be rather strange - it would be people recommending a route that, if it failed despite your best efforts, would also leave you without any unemployment benefits afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/104 "2013-12-09T19:20:14Z")
In the state of MN, the owners must have contributed for 2 calendar years. Weren’t the stats that most businesses fail within 18 months? Convenient… But I did learn something new, so thanks. As far as the advice of becoming self employed, it’s like the advice to write the Great American Novel. Very, very commonly given, but not very helpful in real life. Usually not dispensed by anyone who’s actually done it themselves. Few people can write well, even less can make money at it, hardly anyone at all a decent living. Just like being your own boss! Woohoo! ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/105 "2013-12-09T19:37:33Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > Last year I lost money. So I worked for free the entire year-even took my personal money and put it into the business to keep the company going. That sucked. I still paid all my employees, didn’t lay anyone off, paid all of my bills. > > As far as equity or physical assets, there are none. I die, company kaput. And I’m not sure if you’ve seen the resale value of remodeling companies, but I am pretty sure it’s…not much, if anything. > > Now you may ask, why the hell would I work for free, jeopardize my assets for the company? Because it’s been named as one of the best remodeling companies out there, I’ve got a hell of a team, and we do a damn fine job. It’s worth it. > > I also have 5 kids, over a dozen employees, and a whole bunch of other people who are counting on me. There is no “I can’t.” When you don’t have options, you get shit done. > > So, you recommend I close down the business, then putting over a dozen employees on UI as well? I’ve lost track of what you’re arguing here. Your basic thesis seems to be that the OP should do whatever is necessary to survive because that’s somehow worked out for you. But reading your post, it apparently hasn’t. You’re actually losing money and running from savings, which puts you in _exactly_ the same boat as the OP. You’re hoping that things will turn around before the money runs out. So your advice boils down to “be lucky and hope things get better”? Because I don’t know how to turn _" When you don’t have options, you get shit done."_ into an actual executable plan. I’m not trying to be mean or nasty here. I’m just trying to figure how to extract anything more useful than “Save up for the lean years and hope there aren’t too many of them.” from your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/106 "2013-12-09T19:41:03Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16914990#post16914990](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16914990#post16914990) Anyone wanna share a story of how Unemployment has treated their lazy, disgusting, “can’t even get up to do the dishes” asses? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/107 "2013-12-09T19:43:45Z")
Over 10% of the US workforce is self-employed. [Link.](http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2010/09/art2full.pdf) I’m not thinking everyone should go out and try and start the next Apple or IBM. I’m thinking about this one guy I know who installed A/V equipment. It’s just him, and his sole investment was a few tools. He works out of his home, and gets all his work through word of mouth. If you think something like that is not an option for you, then you’re significantly limiting your employment possibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/108 "2013-12-09T19:51:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And yet that is always going to be true. Your argument is basically saying there is never an appropriate time to cut unemployment benefits. I’m not arguing for anything, I’m just laying out the reality of Economics. If you conclude that the correct action is to have perpetual unemployment insurance, it is YOUR conclusion based on economic realities. Stopping the checks does not encourage companies to hire, does not increase demand for goods and services to warrant additional hiring. It does make a group of workers more desperate, which depresses wages, and reduces their personal spending. This is basic economics, draw your own conclusions about what is best for the economy. > [@](#): > > However, I think it’s naive to believe that people will act in exactly the same manner and consider all the same options whether they are on UI or not. Of course they won’t act the same. Step one, cut back on non-essential purchases, like gymnastics classes. Step two, add your application to the pile of applications for existing job openings. Step three, pray that you get one of those jobs and it helps you stave off bankruptcy for a while. Am I missing a step where this person’s new course of action is going to result in a single new job opening being created in the economy? Do the collective actions of 1.4 million unemployed people losing their checks result in jobs being created? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/109 "2013-12-09T19:52:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Over 10% of the US workforce is self-employed. [Link.](http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2010/09/art2full.pdf) I’m not thinking everyone should go out and try and start the next Apple or IBM. I’m thinking about this one guy I know who installed A/V equipment. It’s just him, and his sole investment was a few tools. He works out of his home, and gets all his work through word of mouth. If you think something like that is not an option for you, then you’re significantly limiting your employment possibilities. From your link. > [@](#): > > ## Self-employment during recessions In general, during labor market downturns labor force groups are hit hard and experience a decline in employ > > ## ment. This procyclical response certainly affects many of the self-employed, whose businesses fail as revenues fall or dis > > ## appear altogether. At the same time, measures such as un > > ## employment and involuntary part-time employment have always increased during recessions. Hence, a competing countercyclical effect could result in a rise in self-employ > > ## ment if laid-off wage and salary workers start businesses for themselves. T\*\*he total number of self-employed workers (unincorporated and incorporated combined) in nonagri > > cultural industries declined, on net, by about 760,000, from > 15.0 million in the fourth quarter of 2007 to 14.2 million > in the second quarter of 2009.\*\* > 7 > As chart 2 shows, the total > nonagricultural self-employment rate, 10.1 percent in the > second quarter of 2010, has edged down recently. And down go the numbers in a recession. > [@](#): > > The unincorporated self-employment rate > among workers ages 65 years and older was very high > (18.1 percent); in contrast, the rates were much lower for > their counterparts ages 16 to 19 years (1.6 percent) and 20 > to 24 years (2.1 percent). (See table 4.) T**he chief reason > is that younger workers rarely have accumulated the capital and the managerial skills required to start a business,** > whereas many older workers may be able to acquire these > resources through their own efforts or through access to > credit. > **Moreover, research has shown that older workers > who have retired from wage and salary jobs may become > self-employed to supplement their retirement income.** ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/110 "2013-12-09T20:20:20Z")
We had one off year. This year we’ve more than made up for it. But crying about how life is unfair doesn’t do squat. “Save up for the lean years, and hope there arent too many of them.” Yep, isn’t that really what everyone does? Individuals, little companies, big companies? What else would you advise, other than be prudent, be nimble, and be realistic? Of course you’ll come back with gov’t bailouts of big companies, but I have yet to experience that, and I have to believe most companies are like me. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/111 "2013-12-09T20:33:02Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I believe with every fiber of my being, with a stomach-wrenching desperation, that I want provide for my young children and wife. I believe I want to make sure we don’t lose the only home my kids have ever known. I believe people are more important than ideology. I believe the desire I’ve always had to pay more in taxes so this kind of horseshit doesn’t happen to people is justified. I believe I would take a job in a heartbeat (as long as it wasn’t low-wage), rather than stay on unemployment with no “time limits.” I believe cutting unemployment benefits will hurt the overall economy, because you know how much of my $362/week benefit check gets put back into the economy through the purchase of real goods? All of it. None of it goes into a slush fund or IRA or a savings account. You’re not providing for your family, the government is. I’m providing for your family, and I’d like you to go out and get a job at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/112 "2013-12-09T20:36:06Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > I’ve lost track of what you’re arguing here. Your basic thesis seems to be that the OP should do whatever is necessary to survive because that’s somehow worked out for you. But reading your post, it apparently hasn’t. You’re actually losing money and running from savings, which puts you in _exactly_ the same boat as the OP. You’re hoping that things will turn around before the money runs out. > > So your advice boils down to “be lucky and hope things get better”? Because I don’t know how to turn _" When you don’t have options, you get shit done."_ into an actual executable plan. > > I’m not trying to be mean or nasty here. I’m just trying to figure how to extract anything more useful than **“Save up for the lean years and hope there aren’t too many of them.” from your posts.** Which, if she had read my posts, I’ve actually done. Saved and saved and saved for years and years. Money’s still going quick. My point is and has been, there is no way as Rand Paul is claiming, cutting my benefits will be good for me and my family. fisha, thanks for the “pep talk.” And fyi, my wife does work. I already said this. That’s why me taking a shit job would double fuck us-- paying more for daycare and gas than we make in a pacheck, remember? And I hope you have a spouse that works because it sounds like you’re barely hanging on. That’s a shitty situation you put and keep yourself in. This is the kind of thing I’m trying to get my family out of. > [@aruvqan](#): > > Actually, sorry to say but yes you do stop the gymnastics, it is a _hobby_ until he can say for certain he will be perfect fit for Cirque du Soleil … if it is not something that will immediately put food on the table or money in the bank it is a luxury. I am not saying pimp him out or put him to work picking tomatoes, but unless it comes free it is a luxury. Thanks for telling me how to raise my four year old without knowing anything about his situation, or knowing anything about how we’ve stripped our budget as of now to help our kids. > [@](#): > > And mrAru’s mom retrained from librarian with 2 degrees to nurse when she divorced his dad, because librarian did not pay enough to raise 2 kids on a seriously craptastic alimony [1966, dad was a school teacher, and he didn’t make shit either.] She would have loved to have been able to afford all sorts of nice stuff, but she ended up in a small camping trailer with no electricity or running water on a farm owned by relatives with a 4 and a 6 year old so she didn’t have to pay rent. Is this supposed to make me feel better? Just because someone you know lived a life of poverty doesn’t make it right or noble or okay. Bootstraps, savings, retrain, suck it up, lean years, underemployment even if it damages our bank account worse than unemployment…got it. My situation aside, there is no way extending unemployment benefits to states with high unemployment is a disservice to the unemployed, as the ophthalmologist is claiming. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/113 "2013-12-09T20:48:51Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > From your link. > And down go the numbers in a recession. Well, yeah, that data was from the depth of the recession. Numbers should be higher now. And, _big shocker_, people in the early 20s are probably not best equipped to do this. Why don’t you list 100 more things a person can’t do. That’s very helpful. In the meantime, some of us will be concentrating on things a person can do. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/114 "2013-12-09T20:49:45Z")
The daycare argument is retarded by the way. You can get the government to help you pay for childcare, this is a program specifically so that people can’t cry and whine about making such a small amount of money that daycare for their child bankrupts them. ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/115 "2013-12-09T20:52:15Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The daycare argument is retarded by the way. You can get the government to help you pay for childcare, this is a program specifically so that people can’t cry and whine about making such a small amount of money that daycare for their child bankrupts them. So the government paying for the daycare is okay, but not for something **he also paid into?** Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/116 "2013-12-09T20:55:39Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The daycare argument is retarded by the way. You can get the government to help you pay for childcare, this is a program specifically so that people can’t cry and whine about making such a small amount of money that daycare for their child bankrupts them. And that’s more welfare for the Right to bitch about. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/117 "2013-12-09T21:04:59Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The daycare argument is retarded by the way. You can get the government to help you pay for childcare, this is a program specifically so that people can’t cry and whine about making such a small amount of money that daycare for their child bankrupts them. Do you think Paul and folks like him are calling for the strengthening of Head Start and other childcare programs? Cuz all I hear from them is the sound of their feet kicking struggling families in the teeth a million times over. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/118 "2013-12-09T21:14:59Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > fisha, thanks for the “pep talk.” And fyi, my wife does work. I already said this. That’s why me taking a shit job would double fuck us-- paying more for daycare and gas than we make in a pacheck, remember? And I hope you have a spouse that works because it sounds like you’re barely hanging on. That’s a shitty situation you put and keep yourself in. This is the kind of thing I’m trying to get my family out of. Actually, my spouse just started working recently. Before that, he suffered a catastrophic stroke last June and was in MICU for 8 days. Scared looking neurosurgeons who wouldn’t look me in the eye, hand holding priest, last rites, private room for me and the kids for the death watch- the whole shebang. So, my friend, it can ALWAYS be shittier. What are you going to do ? Besides be all defensive and blame some politician who doesn’t care about you at all? Pick yourself up, evaluate your life, make changes. And no, I am not barely hanging on, 2012 is but one year, and we’ve broken all previous records for 2013, but thanks for the fake empathy. And way back when, when you told me to eat shit? Honey, I have. Yet I am not bitter, don’t blame other people for my plight, know all politicians could give a shit less about me and mine, plan for the future, and even extend kindness to strangers. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/119 "2013-12-09T21:17:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s very helpful. In the meantime, some of us will be concentrating on things a person can do. Stop concentrating on things A person can do, and concentrate on things 1,400,000 people can do. A person can start a business installing A/V equipment. A person can retrain to be a nurse, or an I/T professional. 1.4 million people can’t do that when their checks run out. The (officially recognized) 10.9 million unemployed people can’t do that. Even if they did, you wouldn’t solve the problems of 10.9 million unemployed people, because there isn’t enough work for all of them to do. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823/120 "2013-12-10T03:53:07Z")
> [@elninost0rm](#): > > So the government paying for the daycare is okay, but not for something **he also paid into?** > > Interesting. And he didn’t or hasn’t paid taxes that go to subsidized daycare? 😕 Taxes pay for both unemployment benefits and subsidized daycare. Paying someone to sit at home and cry on the internet while pretending to “watch” their kid instead of surf the internet isn’t actually that productive. Paying for his kid’s daycare so his lazy ass can get to work has twofold benefits. One, it provides income to people who operate daycares. Two, he is certainly more productive at work than he is sitting at home crying. > [@monstro](#): > > Do you think Paul and folks like him are calling for the strengthening of Head Start and other childcare programs? > > Cuz all I hear from them is the sound of their feet kicking struggling families in the teeth a million times over. No, I don’t think Paul is looking to strengthen Head Start–but I’m just guessing there. But no one I’m aware of has proposed getting rid of subsidized daycare for poor people. Here is the reason that it’s not just a magic wand we can wave and pay people to not work. For one, there is a completely false claim that paying $1.00 in unemployment benefits creates $1.80 in economic growth. This is patently absurd, if it was a net gain to collect money from (what must be some magic tax fairy) and pay people not to work then obviously we could all sit at home doing nothing while the government enriches us with a Keynesian fueled economic perpetual motion machine. The reality is every dollar spent on people not working is dollars that are not being productively allocated. That isn’t the end of the world, but it should have a finite term. Even better than fixed-term benefits would be creating an _actual_ trust fund. (The unemployment trust fund like so many government trust funds is an accounting gimmick that individuals do not directly have any real access to whatsoever.) Instead of the trust fund being kept on government ledgers (State and Federal), individuals would get individual accounts. Both they and their employer would pay into this account, mandatorily, every pay check at a rate equivalent to current taxes. If a person loses their job, they get to draw down money from the account. Once they retire, any surplus in the account converts into an IRA. The reality is current unemployment tax extensions and future extensions will have a job killing effect. Because they aren’t a free lunch, they will result in guaranteed higher payroll taxes down the road. The Feds are not loaning this money to the States out of nowhere nor is it free. The way the scheme works is, the more States have to borrow the more they owe Uncle Sam. And unlike the U.S. Government that can print money and essentially run up unlimited debt, the terms of this debt to the States is very specific. Under the Federal Unemployment Tax Act States will be required to raise their unemployment taxes to make up for the money they are borrowing. The tax is 0.6% of a worker’s first $7,000 in wages, and it increases every year that a State has an outstanding balance by 0.3%. Some States are nearly up to 2% of the first $7,000 in wages. That may seem like a small number, but mind these are payroll taxes. The most regressive, most pocketbook-hitting taxes we have. They are the taxes that most limit consumer spending and most hurt job growth, that is why Obama (correctly) advocated and received from Congress a 2% temporary reduction in the payroll tax. Also note that when it expired the CBO and others in the next quarter found there were immediate negative economic impacts with that tax expiring. So while it may seem like the nice thing to do to just keep paying people unemployment forever, the reality is it is creating ever large payroll tax burdens that will kill jobs and employment for everyone, not just the person who started this thread. Further, at 7% unemployment rate we are well out of crisis levels. An economic crisis can justify things that you would not otherwise do, but we are no longer in an economic crisis. There is no justification for States to continue to take actions that will cause them to incur ever-large payroll tax hits that will kill jobs and stifle economic growth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-are-taking-away-my-unemployment-for-my-own-good/675823.md?page=7)