# Republicans block vote on Hagel; WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 15, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364 "2013-02-15T03:26:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/81 "2013-02-26T22:34:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And Hagel is confirmed as secretary of defense, 58 to 41. That’ll show ya, ya terrorist. I guess that means all the questions about Benghazi have been answered. Or else Lindsay Graham is just a dick. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/82 "2013-02-27T00:05:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And Hagel is confirmed as secretary of defense, 58 to 41. That’ll show ya, ya terrorist. I hear his first trip overseas will be to North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/83 "2013-02-27T00:28:50Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Or else Lindsay Graham is just a dick. Wants dick, actually…Senator Pittypat just can’t admit to it and keep his seat. Wait…that sounded different in my head. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/84 "2013-02-27T00:30:21Z")
??? If the confirmation wasn’t by a filibuster-busting majority, then, if they had maintained it, they could have stopped it. Why did they end the fb? Why did they allow the straight-up vote? Were there people who were warning them, perhaps privately (?) that they might vote for cloture? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/85 "2013-02-27T00:32:58Z")
Just because you vote “nay” doesn’t mean you’ll necessary go for a filibuster. I don’t think McCain or Graham would have. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/86 "2013-02-27T00:33:49Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > ??? If the confirmation wasn’t by a filibuster-busting majority, then, if they had maintained it, they could have stopped it. Why did they end the fb? Why did they allow the straight-up vote? > > Were there people who were warning them, perhaps privately (?) that they might vote for cloture? Kabuki. Highly ritualized theater designed to allow certain senators (_cough_Lindsey Graham_cough_) to establish hardline bona fides in preparation for his primary coming up this year. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/87 "2013-02-27T00:36:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Just because you vote “nay” doesn’t mean you’ll necessary go for a filibuster. I don’t think McCain or Graham would have. Well, first of all, they DID filibuster Hagel last week, which is what this thread is all about in the first place, OP. Despite them trying to handwave that it wasn’t a filibuster…buncha Humpty-Dumpties. Second of all, the only real reason that most of them had for blocking Hagel was so they could grandstand about Benghazi and Israel for the folks back in Buncombe. Especially Senator Pittypat. He’s peeing his pants about that primary. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/88 "2013-02-27T01:05:22Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > ??? If the confirmation wasn’t by a filibuster-busting majority, then, if they had maintained it, they could have stopped it. Why did they end the fb? Why did they allow the straight-up vote? Because they didn’t have the votes to sustain the filibuster. Some of the Republicans only went along with this nonsense because it was understood this was only going to be temporary. If they had had 40 votes to filibuster Hagel endlessly, I guess they would have done it. But some of them understood this fishing expedition/tantrum didn’t justify a filibuster or they understood that you don’t pull this kind of stunt with the nominee for secretary of defense. Wasn’t Rand Paul the last person to vote in the cloture debate last week? He actually voted against cloture and then voted for Hagel. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/89 "2013-02-27T01:17:58Z")
All that bullshit about Benghazi, and Hagel gets a total pass about the influence of his dialectic on Marx! ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/90 "2013-02-27T02:48:38Z")
I have to admit that after watching the hearings and listening to the rhetoric that it is impossible for a Secretary of Defense to properly safeguard this country with an insufficient sense of Israel worship, a preference for reduced dependence on nuclear arms worldwide, and a desire to negotiate with a completely nonthreatening world power like Iran. Also, why pick on Lindsay Graham? Clearly the biggest piece of shit in these proceedings was Ted Cruz. I’d off myself if I questioned the patriotism of a guy who enlisted in Vietnam while having spent my life in faith-based education and debate teams to eventually become McCarthy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/91 "2013-02-27T02:52:43Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > I have to admit that after watching the hearings and listening to the rhetoric that it is impossible for a Secretary of Defense to properly safeguard this country with an insufficient sense of Israel worship, a preference for reduced dependence on nuclear arms worldwide, and a desire to negotiate with a completely nonthreatening world power like Iran. Quiet, you. The Republicans are clearly going to win the Jewish vote if they take a preposterously hard line on Israel. It has to work one of these electoral cycles. > [@](#): > > Also, why pick on Lindsay Graham? Clearly the biggest piece of shit in these proceedings was Ted Cruz. True. He manged to disgust some of his cohorts during an admittedly pointless filibuster of the nomination of one of their own colleagues, and that’s hard to do. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/92 "2013-02-27T03:08:38Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > …if I questioned the patriotism of a guy who enlisted in Vietnam while having spent my life in faith-based education and debate teams to eventually become McCarthy. McCain graduated the Naval Academy in 1958. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/93 "2013-02-27T03:14:11Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Also, why pick on Lindsay Graham? Clearly the biggest piece of shit in these proceedings was Ted Cruz. I’d off myself if I questioned the patriotism of a guy who enlisted in Vietnam while having spent my life in faith-based education and debate teams to eventually become McCarthy. That’s the idea, let’s give Ted Cruz enough rope to hang himself with. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/94 "2013-02-27T03:27:20Z")
apropos of nothing, I always think that “cloture” is really just a term for when you leave milk out on the counter overnight: “Aw damn. I was going to have this milk for breakfast, but it’s turned into cloture.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/95 "2013-02-27T03:58:05Z")
Hemophobia is when your blood is afraid to cloture. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/96 "2013-03-01T19:59:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, the Republicans voted as a block\* not to end debate on Hagel’s nomination for SecDef. > > I think we all know that Hagel is going to be confirmed. Even the Republicans are not saying they are blocking the nomination, per se, but that they need more time. More time for what? They all know him. It’s a simple vote. > > So, what is the point? They can’t be trying to make Obama sweat, because he knows Hagel is going to be confirmed. > > I guess the answer could be “they’re a bunch of idiots”, but I’m open to any supporters who think they can explain this and how it might make sense as a parliamentary procedure. As it is, I just can’t see it. > > \*almost 100%, but not quite. Still, I think we can call this a “block”. Why is Obama blocking the Keystone XL pipeline? We all know he’s going to approve it. We all know that the only reason he was withholding his approval was to wait until after the election. He keeps just saying he needs more time. It’s been planned since 2008. Anyone with half a brain knows that transporting oil by pipeline to U.S. refineries is more environmentally safe than transporting the same oil by pipeline then tankers overseas to be processed by Chinese refineries. I guess the answer is that he’s just an idiot. Or the answer to both my question and yours is that these are politicians, and therefore they are liars and do things for purely political reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/97 "2013-03-01T20:11:52Z")
“Tu Quoque”, he says! Not to mention that it is certainly possible that the pipeline never gets approved. Even Rupert Murdoch recently tweeted that he thinks it may be a better idea to develop cleaner domestic sources (read: fractured natural gas) than importing dirty shale oil from Canada. Food for thought… ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/98 "2013-03-01T20:27:16Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > “Tu Quoque”, he says! > > Not to mention that it is certainly possible that the pipeline never gets approved. Even Rupert Murdoch recently tweeted that he thinks it may be a better idea to develop cleaner domestic sources (read: fractured natural gas) than importing dirty shale oil from Canada. Food for thought… It is not a Tu Quoque logical fallacy as I am not defending the Republican party’s action nor am I a Republican. I completely agree that the Republicans are idiot obstructionists doing nothing but causing trouble for stupid and petty political purposes. I just think the problem is more than a Republican problem and Obama is guilty of the same type of stupid and petty political games. I’m not going to hijack the thread and discuss the pipeline further in this thread although it is a topic that interests me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/99 "2013-03-01T21:27:44Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > Anyone with half a brain knows that transporting oil by pipeline to U.S. refineries is more environmentally safe than transporting the same oil by pipeline then tankers overseas to be processed by Chinese refineries. The environmental objection is not to the pipeline, but to the process for extracting petroleum from shale. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364/100 "2013-03-04T15:30:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The environmental objection is not to the pipeline, but to the process for extracting petroleum from shale. Since the thread appears to be running out of steam, I will continue on this topic. What you have said is not correct. First, the Canadian oil that is primarily under discussion is not extracted from shale. It is bitumen that is surface-mined from tar sands. You are confusing this with the hydraulic fracturing debate, which is primarily occurring in shale. There would be some oil from shale transported on this pipeline, but that is primarily from the Williston Basin in North Dakota. Second, whether the pipeline extension is built across the border bringing this oil to the U.S. has absolutely no impact on the volume produced. This statement is supported by the U.S. State Department’s own analysis, which was just updated last week. You may want to read the executive summary. [State Department Executive Summary](http://keystonepipeline-xl.state.gov/documents/organization/205719.pdf) [QUOTE=State Department] The No Action Alternative includes an evaluation of multiple scenarios that describe potential outcomes if the Department was to deny the Presidential Permit for the proposed Project, or if it was otherwise not constructed. Based on available information and independent analysis … production and transportation of WCSB (“Western Canadian Sedimentary Basin”) … crude oil would remain unchanged. [/QUOTE] Therefore, from an environmental standpoint, it really is this simple: 1) is it better to transport this oil by pipeline or by a combination of pipelines, rail, and tankers; and 2) is it better to refine this oil in the U.S. or in China. I think the decision is pretty clear. Environmentalists are shooting themselves in the foot on this. Of course, the entire discussion is a moot point since Obama will approve the permit, and the entire delay was only for political purposes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-block-vote-on-hagel-wtf/650364.md?page=6)