# Republicans & Conservatism after Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 6, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951 "2017-08-06T22:11:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/41 "2018-03-06T19:07:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m fine with shaming bigotry/racism/white supremacism and their advocates (as well as those who tolerate them). So what? That has nothing to do with the concept of nationalism and the creation of modern nation states. Your crusade is irrelevant in this case because what you are talking about is a subset, if that, of the broader concept. That’s a bit like attacking the concept of and those that tolerate religion because some religions have some heinous tenets. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/42 "2018-03-06T19:46:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m fine with shaming bigotry/racism/white supremacism and their advocates (as well as those who tolerate them). Will that make it go away, or just drive it underground? The south has built an entire culture around bigotry and racism, and it has lasted for hundreds of years. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/43 "2018-03-06T19:58:46Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So what? That has nothing to do with the concept of nationalism and the creation of modern nation states. Your crusade is irrelevant in this case because what you are talking about is a subset, if that, of the broader concept. That’s a bit like attacking the concept of and those that tolerate religion because some religions have some heinous tenets. It has a lot to do with the modern incarnation of the Republican party (i.e. the Trumpian aspects and its supporters). The brand of nationalism they advocate for is intricately tied with white supremacism, and I have no problem criticizing (and shaming) folks who push it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/44 "2018-03-06T20:06:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It has a lot to do with the modern incarnation of the Republican party (i.e. the Trumpian aspects and its supporters). The brand of nationalism they advocate for is intricately tied with white supremacism, and I have no problem criticizing (and shaming) folks who push it. Good luck. You, and many on this forum, continue to discount larger global trends and focus on minutiae and overly broad and, ironically enough, divisive stereotypes. Perhaps it’s the winning strategy for the left. I’ll give you credit for not saying thumpian as if Trump is Voldemort or something silly like that. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/45 "2018-03-06T20:17:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’ll give you credit for not saying thumpian as if Trump is Voldemort or something silly like that. Not Voldemort. He had an attention span greater than your average eight-year-old. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/46 "2018-03-06T20:32:06Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Good luck. You, and many on this forum, continue to discount larger global trends and focus on minutiae and overly broad and, ironically enough, divisive stereotypes. Perhaps it’s the winning strategy for the left. You’re saying that criticizing and shaming white supremacists and white supremacism “discount[s] larger global trends and focus[es] on minutia and overly broad… stereotypes”? That seems ludicrous to me. Criticizing and shaming white supremacists is the right thing to do – it was in the 60s and it remains the right thing today. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/47 "2018-03-06T20:55:47Z")
But hurting their feelings is “divisive” now, in the age of Trump. There are good people on both sides, as you may have heard. Why do you not respect beliefs you disagree with, like a good liberal should? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/48 "2018-03-06T21:06:51Z")
My last post should read: You’re saying that criticizing and shaming white supremacists and white supremacism “discount larger global trends and focus on minutia and overly broad… stereotypes”? That seems ludicrous to me. Criticizing and shaming white supremacists is the right thing to do – it was in the 60s and it remains the right thing today. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/49 "2018-03-06T21:50:23Z")
That’s funny. Post #46 was all screwed up on Tapatalk, but on my laptop it looks just fine. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/50 "2018-03-06T22:03:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > My last post should read: > > You’re saying that criticizing and shaming white supremacists and white supremacism “discount larger global trends and focus on minutia and overly broad… stereotypes”? > > That seems ludicrous to me. Criticizing and shaming white supremacists is the right thing to do – it was in the 60s and it remains the right thing today. That’s great. But that’s not what you did. You made an inaccurate and simplistic association between disparate concepts so you could tarnish the ancient idea of nationalism. It’s an attempt to manipulate cognitive biases. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/51 "2018-03-06T22:22:01Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s great. But that’s not what you did. You made an inaccurate and simplistic association between disparate concepts so you could tarnish the ancient idea of nationalism. It’s an attempt to manipulate cognitive biases. Where did I do this? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/52 "2018-03-06T23:01:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Where did I do this? In this thread. You do read what you write? You are equating the ancient idea of nationalism with the specific ideology of white supremacy in the United States in order to tarnish the concept of nationalism. Unfortunately, this form of cognitive bias manipulation is as effective as it is common. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/53 "2018-03-06T23:09:59Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > In this thread. You do read what you write? You are equating the ancient idea of nationalism with the specific ideology of white supremacy in the United States in order to tarnish the concept of nationalism. Unfortunately, this form of cognitive bias manipulation is as effective as it is common. I did not do this. Please point to specific posts and specific words you disagree with, and I’ll happily respond. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/54 "2018-03-07T00:28:12Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s great. But that’s not what you did. You made an inaccurate and simplistic association between disparate concepts so you could tarnish the ancient idea of nationalism. It’s an attempt to manipulate cognitive biases. You don’t appear to have the slightest idea exactly what nationalism means. It’s not ‘national pride.’ It’s ‘national pride gone over the cliff into institutionalized hate against everyone that doesn’t fit our conception of ‘us.’’ ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/55 "2018-03-07T00:33:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I did not do this. Please point to specific posts and specific words you disagree with, and I’ll happily respond. I don’t have the desire to engage in endless pedantic nitpickery. > [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > You don’t appear to have the slightest idea exactly what nationalism means. It’s not ‘national pride.’ It’s ‘national pride gone over the cliff into institutionalized hate against everyone that doesn’t fit our conception of ‘us.’’ I think your post proves you are the one ignorant of what nationalism actually means. You should refer to the link that iiandyiiii provided a few posts above. This narrow minded thinking is very peculiar and not at all productive. I do think it’s fascinating that the Orwellian tactic of constantly redefining words is so common, ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/56 "2018-03-07T00:52:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I don’t have the desire to engage in endless pedantic nitpickery. I didn’t post what you said I did. If you want to call it “pedantic nitpickery” feel free, but I think you just made a mistake and misinterpreted one of my posts. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/57 "2018-03-07T00:55:51Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You are equating the ancient idea of nationalism with the specific ideology of white supremacy in the United States in order to tarnish the concept of nationalism. I chuckled. Anyway, if white supremacists can’t stand to be called out, let 'em skitter away and hide under the fridge like cockroaches. We know they’ll always be there, we just don’t want them running around like they own the place. And I’m okay with also phasing out religions (or at least the superstitious aspects of them) by way of gradual grassroots social engineering. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/58 "2018-03-07T01:00:58Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I don’t have the desire to engage in endless pedantic nitpickery. I don’t either, which is why I don’t post much in the way of arguments in these threads. No one changes their mind anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/59 "2018-03-07T01:13:52Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Trumpism, with the constant outrageous behavior, insults, and odd attempts to try to return the USA to the 1950’s will wear out its welcome eventually. The one thing Trump has done has broken the Republicans usual strategy of next in line. The odd 2016 Republican primary season hurt every other candidate besides Trump and there really is no heir apparent. I don’t see the boorishness of the Trump presidency represents, or even its racist overtones, as being its most dangerous aspect when it comes to changing the political landscape. Th greatest danger I see is the demonstration that truth no longer matters. Before Trump both sides would do their best to spin the narrative, but they basically agreed as to the facts. Now the sky is the limit. This could do to campaigns what CGI did to special effects. You are no longer governed by the laws of physics, the only limit is the imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951/60 "2018-03-07T01:15:07Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > …I think your post proves you are the one ignorant of what nationalism actually means. You should refer to the link that iiandyiiii provided a few posts above. This narrow minded thinking is very peculiar and not at all productive. I do think it’s fascinating that the Orwellian tactic of constantly redefining words is so common, Whatever you say, Big Brother. Please don’t set the Thought Police on me. (Btw, nationalism is also closely related to wrapping oneself in the flag to justify committing or enabling base and corrupt acts.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-conservatism-after-trump/792951.md?page=4)