# Republicans Consider ‘Conscientious Objector’ Rule for Convention Delegates **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 19, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774 "2016-06-19T15:23:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/41 "2016-06-20T01:16:11Z")
Will he sue everyone in sight? The RNC, Priebus, all the also-rans that he thinks are conspiring, and individually every delegate, formerly bound to him, who votes against him? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/42 "2016-06-20T01:48:24Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Huh. Well, Trump _did_ win a majority of votes/delegates apparently fair and square. Trump won a majority of delegates. He did not win a majority of votes. He won a plurality. He was a little over 40% when the last of his competition dropped out. With nobody opposing him in the last races he managed to bounce up and finish at 44.7% of the popular vote. Welcome to the GOP where vote and delegate numbers can have big differences. 😃 > [@asahi](#): > > Let’s suppose they enable delegates to change the rules, which is the first step. That alone will touch off a massive floor fight. That’s already how they do business now. No massive floor fight over whether they can change the rules. They can. The fight starts over the specific changes proposed. > [@](#): > > And it seems like a lot of anti-Trumpers are not going to be at the convention anyway, so I’m not sure this is a wise move. The big name politicians who have announced they aren’t coming don’t have a vote. This isn’t the Democratic Party where many/most of them would be voting superdelegates. They might want to show up for the in person discussions to affect the process. Since the rules committee meets before the convention to decide on rules change proposals there’s still time to hop a plane and be in Cleveland before the convention starts. Then it gets fugly. This seems like a way to try and wrap a slightly more palatable description around avoiding a first vote majority for Trump. Somebody might think this stand up better under current binding rules. The underlying issue of Trump’s vocal minority of the party going absolutely ape shit is still hanging out there no matter how you package it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/43 "2016-06-20T02:20:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Ibn Warraq** : > > It’s too late for him to get on the ballot for all 50 states. Yes, I know that, and addressed it in my previous post. He doesn’t need to get on enough ballots to win; he just needs to get on enough to screw over the Republicans. And that doesn’t take very many states at all. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/44 "2016-06-20T04:58:48Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, the party can do that. > > The party will also suffer consequences from doing that because so many party members voted for Trump Yes, that is the conundrum that many in the GOP are facing. Damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Can’t say I have any sympathy for them… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/45 "2016-06-20T05:32:05Z")
You can have half of mine! Can’t say I’ve gotten a lot of use out of it, it interferes with gloating. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/46 "2016-06-20T19:20:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, the party can do that. > > The party will also suffer consequences from doing that because so many party members voted for Trump In normal years the majority of Republicans who didn’t vote for Trump would come over. This year so many are staying away that contested House and Senate seats are at risk. They might decide that they are going to lose the White House anyway but dumping Trump might let them hold on to the House at least. As John said, they are screwed anyway but getting rid of Trump might save the party. In California Republican action against Latinos has made them irrelevant as the demographics changed, and the country is moving in our direction. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/47 "2016-06-20T19:34:58Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In normal years the majority of Republicans who didn’t vote for Trump would come over. This year so many are staying away that contested House and Senate seats are at risk. They might decide that they are going to lose the White House anyway but dumping Trump might let them hold on to the House at least. As John said, they are screwed anyway but getting rid of Trump might save the party. > In California Republican action against Latinos has made them irrelevant as the demographics changed, and the country is moving in our direction. Yes, but dumping Trump has just as much risk to lose them the House as keeping him. More, probably. You think the Trump voters are going to watch them screw Trump out of the nomination, then shrug and pull the lever for the Republicans in the other races? No, they’re going to want revenge against the Republicans up and down the ticket. You can’t alienate 30% of your base and expect to keep hold of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/48 "2016-06-21T05:23:15Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > The big name politicians who have announced they aren’t coming don’t have a vote. This isn’t the Democratic Party where many/most of them would be voting superdelegates. Lots of Republicans now wish their party did have superdelegates. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/49 "2016-06-22T19:13:36Z")
WI governor Scott Walker has endorsed the “vote your conscience” _concept_ for convention delegates, apparently believing that delegate have that option under the current rules. However, he has not withdrawn his endorsement of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/50 "2016-06-22T19:43:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Huh. Well, Trump _did_ win a majority of votes/delegates apparently fair and square. I think the party throwing out the results because the party doesn’t like them might well inspire a rebellion in the average voter. I mean, what better would prove that the average person’s vote is meaningless and it’s not about what the people want, it’s what the power-brokers and billionaires want? > > I understand why the party leadership wants to do this - they’ve lost control. And I personally don’t want Trump as president. But overturning elections because we don’t like who won isn’t the way to go about correcting the situation. No. Trump won a majority of the delegates, but more votes went against him than for him. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/51 "2016-06-22T20:03:29Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Yes, but dumping Trump has just as much risk to lose them the House as keeping him. More, probably. You think the Trump voters are going to watch them screw Trump out of the nomination, then shrug and pull the lever for the Republicans in the other races? No, they’re going to want revenge against the Republicans up and down the ticket. You can’t alienate 30% of your base and expect to keep hold of Congress. Depends on how many of that 30% would be made enough to sit out the election. But they have to think about 2 and 4 years from now. Even if they lose Congress in 2016, those voters might come back in 2018. Centrist voters on the other hand might not come back at all. Not saying this is an easy decision - they are screwed whatever they do this year. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/52 "2016-06-22T20:09:50Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Lots of Republicans now wish their party did have superdelegates. Not that it would do any good. If you converted the normal delegate counts into Democratic Party terms, there wouldn’t be enough superdelegates to matter. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/53 "2016-06-22T20:42:49Z")
I begin to wonder if Mooselini is after trying to get her nose in the tent. They just might be that stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/54 "2016-06-22T20:59:38Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Yes, but dumping Trump has just as much risk to lose them the House as keeping him. More, probably. You think the Trump voters are going to watch them screw Trump out of the nomination, then shrug and pull the lever for the Republicans in the other races? \*\*No, they’re going to want revenge against the Republicans up and down the ticket. \*\* You can’t alienate 30% of your base and expect to keep hold of Congress. Revenge how? Vote Democratic? ---
**Author:** ![ebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@ebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ebb)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/55 "2016-06-22T21:53:09Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Revenge how? Vote Democratic? Stay home, more likely. I think the average Trump supporter, finding that Trump had been screwed out of the nomination by those Republican elites, will figure out some better way to spend their time on the first Tuesday in November. Heck, Trump will probably start calling it “Trumpday” and urge people to have backyard BBQs and watch him on the TV. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/56 "2016-07-12T14:37:29Z")
Thought I’d bump this as the [Dump Trump movement scored a court victory in Virginia](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-trump-delegate-scores-court-victory-in-virginia/). Basically, the law requiring how delegates vote was struck down. From what I had read previously, this isn’t much of a surprise - at least once before a court has ruled that laws can’t restrict how a person votes within a private organization. The article I linked above says that the law conflicted with RNC rules saying primaries before March 15 must be proportional, but that seems an error. According to the Green Papers, Virginia delegates were indeed awarded that way. > **[Virginia Republican Delegation 2016](http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/VA-R)** > > Virginia Republican Delegation 2016 I’m curious if this actually “frees” the delegates though. RNC rules say they must vote according to State law or State party rules. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/57 "2016-07-12T15:00:00Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I’m curious if this actually “frees” the delegates though. RNC rules say they must vote according to State law or State party rules. Paul Ryan, the chair, says he doesn’t plan to force delegates to vote any specific way, and the RNC can set its own rules as and when it chooses. [Paul Ryan: ‘It is not my job to tell delegates what to do’](http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trailguide-paul-ryan-it-is-not-my-job-to-tell-1466355409-htmlstory.html), an LA Times piece in which he comes down firmly on both sides of this issue: > [@](#): > > “All I want to make sure is that it’s done above board, clearly, honestly and by the rules. So I see my role now, given that he’s got the plurality, he actually won, is pretty much a ceremonial position. But the last thing I’m going to do is weigh in and tell delegates what to do – how to do their jobs.” [Back in June, he said delegates should vote their conscience, but he said that choosing someone other than Trump would cost the Republicans the White House.](http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/17/politics/paul-ryan-donald-trump-conscience/) He’s very firm about his position, which is both positions simultaneously to the greatest extent the English language allows. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/58 "2016-07-12T15:23:37Z")
Paul Ryan doesn’t really have anything to do with it though. What do you think he’s the chairman of? He’s not in charge of the voting rules. (Ryan is not Chair of the RNC nor of their Standing Committee on Rules) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/59 "2016-07-12T15:33:44Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Paul Ryan doesn’t really have anything to do with it though. What do you think he’s the chairman of? He’s not in charge of the voting rules. (Ryan is not Chair of the RNC nor of their Standing Committee on Rules) He’s the chair of the convention, so he should have some input into how the convention operates. You’re right that he doesn’t set the rules and he did eventually come around to endorsing Trump. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774/60 "2016-07-12T15:35:31Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Trump is polling horribly. This will have some down-ballot effect, but once Trump is done, he’s done. This is lsightly OT, but… no, he’s not. Trump is polling behind, but to say he is polling “Horribly” is a radical redefinition of “Horrible.” According to fivethirtyeight, Sam Wang, and other solid predictions, Trump is an underdog but not by a lot. 538 has him as 23% likely to win the election, which makes him a slight underdog. It’s a very closeable gap. If, for instance, Trump were to add about 3% to his support, he would become the favourite in Florida, North Carolina, and Colorado, with Virginia and Ohio being toss ups, and he would likely win the election. As it stands if the election were held today he would probably lose, but he has a reasonable shot at winning. I would not bet anything against him I could not afford to lose. Unless you know for a fact his poll numbers will get worse, he isn’t polling “horribly.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-consider-conscientious-objector-rule-for-convention-delegates/757774.md?page=4)