# Republicans destroying Democraat voter registrations? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2004, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971 "2004-10-13T06:07:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/41 "2004-10-13T20:32:25Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [New Republican Shennagins Blocked in Nevada](http://www.nola.com/newsflash/topstories/index.ssf?/base/politics-6/1097688242122000.xml&storylist=topstories) You know, I might find this guy to be a bit more credible if he were also calling for the removal of inactive _Republicans_ from the ballots. What is this? Is it only Democratic voters who wind up inactive? Damned crook. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/42 "2004-10-13T20:33:43Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Can you find a decent source for this story? I just spent some of my lunch break looking for some data on this particular story, but have come up empty handed. Let’s take another look at the claim made at the link, provided by **Mr. Moto** : > [@](#): > > **from the FreeRepublic link** : > _Preliminary numbers show some precincts had 100 percent of the registered voters voting, with 99 percent of their votes going for Gore. There is no obvious explanation for how this is possible._ Now, I found this, while looking for more information on this story: > [@](#): > > **from [The Center for Rural Pennsylvania](http://www.ruralpa.org/news0501.html)**: > _The number one county for voter turnout in 2000 was rural Forest County at 76 percent, and the two counties with the lowest turnout were urban Philadelphia and Centre counties with 55 and 56 percent, respectively. The top 12 counties for voter turnout were rural._ Voter turnout was highest for Forest County, at 76%. Well, that’s a county… but what about precincts? I can’t seem to find any numbers, concerning the voter turnout at individual precincts-- so if anyone can, maybe it will help shed some light on this whole thing. If **FreeRepublic** backed up their claim with a cite, I would be more inclined to believe them. I don’t feel like ponying up $3 just to read an article in the Washington Times, to see the context of these statements… but that may just be me. LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/43 "2004-10-13T20:47:41Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Let’s assume you’re right. The intent is to stuff ballot boxes. Why in the hell would you request more ballots than residents? To make sure you get caught? Do you think they’re stupid enough to submit more votes than there are residents? They want to be just like Chicago. 😃 Vote early, vote often! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/44 "2004-10-13T21:16:28Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > [Error](http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a41f7e24141.htm) So a Texas Economics professor and a Yale senior researcher are quoted as saying that they discovered this (after, it seems, penning “More guns, less crime”.). I can’t find shit at the NY Post’s web site, google gave a hit to an expired article that at least gave me the info that Lott writes OP-ED pieces for them. I think I’ll need a stronger cite than a right wing website quoting a right wing nutjob who was writing an op-ed piece. Sorry. You know, something that actually points to the study he did and what information he used to come to that conclusion. I think people missed the part where the ACORN incident is exactly the same as the OP incident because ACORN is mostly funded by the DNC. Oh wait, they aren’t. -lv ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/45 "2004-10-13T21:25:43Z")
This story is heating up, at least in the blogosphere: [http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week\_2004\_10\_10.php#003666](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_10.php#003666) The estimable J. Marshall… > [@](#): > > Fascinating. Employees of Voters Outreach of America, a GOP-funded voter registration outfit operating in Nevada, say they personally witnessed company employees shredding hundreds or even thousands of Democratic registrations. Now the same company (VOA) is being accused of destroying Democratic registration forms in Oregon. > > The head of VOA is Nathan Sproul, a Republican political consultant who used to be the executive director of the Arizona state Republican party. > > In gaining access to venues to register voters, he has apparently been claiming that his group is part of America Votes, a voter education and registration groups put together by a consortium of Democrat-leaning groups like the AFL-CIO, Emily’s List, the Sierra Club and others… > **[RNC funds voter supression efforts](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2004/10/13/59887/-)** > > This is big, from reader MK: Found the following links which all seem to point to the same company that is suspected of tearing up Democratic voter registration forms in Las Vegas. It has set up re... Daily Kos, natch… > [@](#): > > \*\* RNC funds voter supression efforts\*\* > > ound the following links which all seem to point to the same company that is suspected of tearing up Democratic voter registration forms in Las Vegas. It has set up registration drives in Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio, West Virginia, Florida and Nevada and is accused of the same things in most if not all of these states. Sproul & Associates is a Republican consulting firm run by Nathan Sproul, former head of the Arizona Republican party and Arizona Christian Coalition. Your correspondent makes no claims to the veracity or accuracy of the above cites, save that they have proved reliable in the past. These charges are believable for that reason if for no other, save that they involve the most scrupulous political party, the Republicans, who are simply drenched in civic virtue and integrity. (…sarcasm gleefully added…) ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/46 "2004-10-13T21:27:54Z")
It just keeps getting funnier. The company behind these shenanigans in Nevada is connected to the consulting firm Sproul and Associates, [which is in turn connected](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/13/15534/960) to registration drives in six other states, most of them battleground states. If any of you plan to vote and registered with a third-party organization, I would suggest you _verify_ that you are indeed registered if you have the means to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/47 "2004-10-13T21:29:24Z")
Your government has not only the nerve to invade sovereign nations “to spread democracy”… On top of that the USA (and so many of its citizens) act as if the USA is needed to “teach the Afghanis and the Iraqis how to vote”. I hope at least some people realize what kind of lunatical arrogance speaks from even thinking the US is capable of "spreading democracy, let alone “teaching other people how to vote”. Not only is the whole “election” campaign in the USA every time again as if you look at the changing acts of an amusing circus. Whereby the best selling product wins it all. But on top of this joke your nation is relying on _private_ companies to gather voters forms? Excuse me? Capitalism in its best performance I suppose? The mere fact that one needs to “register” to be able to vote is already a joke. Wouldn’t it be a good idea to have national ID cards for every single citizen of the USA and make voting compulsory? A lot of problems like this one would be simply impossible to happen ever agian. At the same time smaller parties would gain influence - because attracting protest votes - and in the end you would get at the very least more then two clowns trying to settle themselves in the White House. Maybe there would be even a few among them who are actually capable of doing the job. I hope you get an understanding as to why outsiders can only be amazed, amused and at the same time disgusted. A Banana Republic would do much better. Permit me to say that I am highly amused. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/48 "2004-10-13T21:46:27Z")
Permission denied! Cease being amused! ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/49 "2004-10-13T21:49:45Z")
Damn, I thought USA was a democracy, I have been wrong all these years ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/50 "2004-10-13T22:17:49Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > I hope at least some people realize what kind of lunatical arrogance speaks from even thinking the US is capable of "spreading democracy, let alone “teaching other people how to vote”. Speaking of lunatic arrogance, you should see how [incensed some folks get](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,130090,00.html) at the thought of the electoral procedure being scrutinized by disinterested parties. > [@](#): > > “A lot of Americans are naturally going to be insulted by the idea that there is something wrong with our democratic process and that we need these bureaucrats from abroad,” said Jeff Deist, spokesman for Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas. […] “Whether they give the stamp of approval or not to monitor these elections ought not to be the concern. We are a sovereign country. We conduct our own elections,” Deist said. “Implicit in [sending observers] is you are a nation that is backwards or incapable. ‘We, as the international babysitter, need to come in and make sure that you are doing things properly.’ That’s not going to fly very well with the American people.” Ha. > [@Aldebaran](#): > > The mere fact that one needs to “register” to be able to vote is already a joke. > Wouldn’t it be a good idea to have national ID cards for every single citizen of the USA and make voting compulsory? I don’t think so. Apathetic people shouldn’t be forced to vote. If they can’t be bothered to show up at the polls, it’s a safe bet they haven’t bothered to develop an informed opinion on the issues. Better for everyone if they’re left out of the process. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/51 "2004-10-13T23:48:00Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > Damn, I thought USA was a democracy, I have been wrong all these years ☹ Every day, in every way, we are marching towards becoming a [Banana Republic(an)…](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1585423424?v=glance) ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/52 "2004-10-13T23:48:51Z")
As much as I hate to drag the clusterfuck of the 2000 election into this, one Florida Democratic party official in discussing [the alleged Republican party vote manipulations is alleged to have said](http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=29&row=2): > [@](#): > > One Democrat whispered they would have done the same as Katharine Harris if they had the chance. But another, party chairman, Bob Poe remains bitter about this. Mind you, that source is biased _for_ the Democrats, but I don’t put much faith in what he says, since for all his expose reporting, there haven’t been any rolled heads, which if what he says in [this column](http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=259&row=2) is true, is exactly what should have happened. > [@](#): > > The whole list was rotten with these whacky faux felony convictions—and loaded with the tag line “BLA”—black voter. It’s a violation of Federal law for a person’s ethnic identity to appear on voter registration rolls. [These folks claim that the media has been rigging elections since 1964.](http://www.votescam.com/coverforvoterigging.php) > [@](#): > > By 1964, computers were used to predict election outcomes, as well as to count votes on “punch cards.” With the use of computerized vote counters and the news networks exclusive control over polling data in major elections, the gates to election fraud were wide open. Computerized voting machines have now made election fraud as easy as stealing candy from a baby. So how could VNS help rig an election? VNS could conspire with corrupt government officials and crooked voting machine companies (whose reputation for fraud and “error” grows with every election) to come up with projections that closely mirror the expected election results. Then all that’s needed is some ‘tweaking’ in targeted precincts where voting data can be manipulated, voting machines rigged …and elections swung. VNS follows through with its de facto certification of election results that have already been fixed. If someone suspects vote rigging, there’s always VNS to say that the results match their projections. And with no oversight, who’s to know? Mind you, I think those folks are flakes, but they _do_ have a [collection of articles on their site](http://www.votescam.com/articles.php) by mainstream journalists who allege that at least there’s been the possibility of election fraud at times in the past (mainly the 2000 election). In my own personal experience, when I tried register to vote as I was renewing my driver’s license some ten years or so ago, I wasn’t given the registration form, even though I requested the form (didn’t realize it until I got out of the DMV). The last time I renewed my license I requested the form and was given it. The first time there was a Republican governor in office and the town I lived in was heavily Democratic. This time the governor is a Democrat and the town I live in is pretty much evenly split. I’m willing to bet it was a case of human error that I didn’t get my registration card the first time. ---
**Author:** ![emacularius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@emacularius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacularius)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/53 "2004-10-14T02:12:56Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Sad you feel that way, **Polerius** , considering that the Democrats or their allies are taking part in similar atrocities. > > I feel election fraud is a serious problem, whoever engages in it. And this example should be investigated and prosecuted if need be. Howevewr, if you express outrage fairly, you’re going to be a man without a party. > > [Massive registration fraud in Colorado.](http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=8ac173fd-0abe-421a-011e-5ce7dfcf561e&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf) That’s freakin’ scary… I signed up with one of those people outside of my college! ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/54 "2004-10-14T02:23:51Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > They were stupid enough to do it in Philadelphia in the last race. Some precincts showed 100% turnout, with 99% of the vote going to Gore. > > There is no possible way this can legally happen. Note: The following bears no relation to the laws where this abuse took place; it’s offered for interest value only. For those interested in amusing political stories, I thought I’d mention in passing a district in which \>100% turnout did actually happen, legally. In the [Northwest Territories general election](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territories_general_election%2C_2003) in 2003, the constituency of Inuvik Twin Lakes experienced 150% turnout. In Canada, people can register to vote at the polling place by providing proof of citizenship and residency, and 187 additional people voted besides the 356 who were already registered. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/55 "2004-10-14T10:05:54Z")
You know, if I were in charge of ordering ballots for Milwaukee, I would have ordered more ballots than we needed, especially if I knew we’d run out in previous years. This is an important matter and things can go wrong. Rather than see people disenfranchised because a box of ballots was out on the wrong shelf and couldn’t be found (and hell, yes, I’d find out exactly what happened), I’d make make sure we had more than we could possibly need. For the record, I’m an independent who hasn’t voted for a major party candidate for president. The last election gave me more evidence that this is a good stance, and I remain fed up with both parties. CJ ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/56 "2004-10-14T14:17:10Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > You know, if I were in charge of ordering ballots for Milwaukee, I would have ordered more ballots than we needed, especially if I knew we’d run out in previous years. This is an important matter and things can go wrong. Rather than see people disenfranchised because a box of ballots was out on the wrong shelf and couldn’t be found (and hell, yes, I’d find out exactly what happened), I’d make make sure we had more than we could possibly need. > > For the record, I’m an independent who hasn’t voted for a major party candidate for president. The last election gave me more evidence that this is a good stance, and I remain fed up with both parties. It’s not only that, it’s that it’s the system has the same number of ballots going to every ward. It’s not one polling place in Milwaukee with 150% the number of ballots, it’s scores of wards - some will have three times enough ballots, and some won’t have enough. They’ve already seen that 1700 per ward is not enough, and now they’re trying to do 1600! So last election, they had more than 900,000 ballots, nobody said Milwaukee had 150% election turnout, and it wasn’t enough. Twice the number of ballots overall in no way indicates an attempt at voter fraud. Fewer ballots per ward in an election that’s expecting more voters than last time, _and_ which didn’t have enough ballots that last election, does seem like an attempt to influence the turnout. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/57 "2004-10-14T16:39:46Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I said Democrats or their allies, and ACORN is surely not a right wing organization. It’s stridently liberal to left wing, and closely allied with organized labor. > > Want more? Here you go. > > [Milwaukee requests far more ballots than registered voters, in predominately Democratic city.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6237078/) What this cite doesn’t say is that in Wisconsin, you can register to vote up to and including election day. That is, if you haven’t registered by Nov. 2nd, you go to the polls anyway and register right then. It’s not like other states that have a cutoff, where if you don’t register, you don’t vote. Because WI lets you register at the polls, it seems completely reasonable to me that a district in Milwaukee would ask for more ballots than registered voters. Especially so in this election, where it seems more voters will turn out than in previous elections. And later, reading through the thread, I see you quote Milwaukee as having less than 600,000 inhabitants. When I lived there, the sign said 636,036. And that was in 1997. The suburban Milwaukee area has probably over 1.5 million people. Now, I hardly expect MSNBC to say “Milwaukee, Deerfield, Brown Deer, and Greenfield have…” At best, they’ll say “Milwaukee and the surrounding areas,” at average, they’ll simply refer to “Milwaukee.” I still don’t think there’s any discrepancy in the numbers large enough to get your knickers in a wad over. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/58 "2004-10-14T19:16:22Z")
Sure, but the county is a separate jurisdiction from the city. The metro area is broken up into several localities, like most metro areas. The issue here is the ballots the city was ordering. And the city of Milwaukee has fewer than 600,000 people. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/59 "2004-10-14T20:01:22Z")
You’re right, but just barely fewer - Google says Milwaukee has a population of 596,974. I still think ordering more ballots is prudent. And I’m not certain how ordering more ballots = people will be able to vote more than once. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971/60 "2004-10-14T20:06:04Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Sad you feel that way, **Polerius** , considering that the Democrats or their allies are taking part in similar atrocities. > > I feel election fraud is a serious problem, whoever engages in it. And this example should be investigated and prosecuted if need be. Howevewr, if you express outrage fairly, you’re going to be a man without a party. > > [Massive registration fraud in Colorado.](http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=8ac173fd-0abe-421a-011e-5ce7dfcf561e&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf) Well, that story is about fraudulent voter **registrations.** These workers are paid based on how many they register, so they make up some voters, or register the same voter multiple times by changing some of the info on the form. That doesn’t really become a problem unless somebody actually tries to **vote** more than once in the same election – or unless somebody tries to vote but finds out that these shenanigans have caused him/her not to properly registered at all. Unless one or the other happens, what these registration workers are doing is dishonest and fraudulent – but won’t actually affect the outcome of any election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-destroying-democraat-voter-registrations/268971.md?page=4)