An important one is the presentation of ID to vote, especially in areas with day-of-voting registration.
This vital reform is nearly always opposed by the Democratic Party.
Also, NurseCarmen, I’m hardly an expert in vote fraud. But things like the Democratic memo telling activists to launch a “preemptive strike” even when no fraud has yet been detected are truly worrisome to me.
I can’t say for certain whether the Republicans or Democrats are worse offenders on this front. But the tendency of some folks here to reflexively excuse Democratic abuses while simultaneously decrying the unfairness of the whole system just reeks of hypocrisy.
What do you mean? I’ve had to present ID at every election I’ve ever participated in. GOP ideas of ID check, I suspect, would fall in line with their other attempts to intimidate black voters from participation.
Who’s excusing Democratic voter fraud? The point being made is that the fraud from the Dems is happening at the local level, but the GOP is being directed form the highest levels.
These memos are written under the always true assumption that Republicans will engage in voter fraud and supression efforts. As I pointed out several times, they are ALREADY clearly going ahead to engage in it this time, so the assumption is pretty well warranted, and not worrisome in the least.
(by the way, can you point to any large scale voter suppression efforts that the Democratic party is guilty of? Or even any at all?)
But no one has excused democratic abuse: they have pointed out that it is not systematic in the way that Republican efforts are. You’re the one that reeks here.
Oh, he doesn’t reek. I assume he can’t honestly see the difference between the Republican fraud claims here and the (maybe? at least Mr. Moto claims they’re Democrat) Democrat fraud claims here. I see the difference, and I wish he would acknowledge whether he sees the difference, or why he believes the ones he’s pointed out are just as bad as destroying Democrat registrations in one state, and the same company not letting Democrats register in another state (which they deny, but it’s clear from the various employees they talked to that they were quoting the same instructions that told them to walk away. But let’s assume that at least we here in the SDMB are being honest with each other.
And when the Gore campaign in 2000 sought to disqualify as many military absentee voters in Florida as it could, was that not organized by the Democratic Party at high levels?
I really don’t want to point fingers here, about which side is worse. I concede freely that there are Republicans out there trying to game the system.
This blindness to problems on the other side, though, is baffling to me. It certainly doesn’t seem intellectually honest.
Actually, as I recall, they were attempting to require strict, letter-of-the-law enforcement of the rules, a very, erm, Republican attitude, don’t you think?
Whose being blind here? You’ve not provided a single link between the DNC and fraud. As shown, Sproul and Tobin are part of the RNC; there’s a link there.
Y’know, I started this thread perfectly willing to believe your point of view. All you had to do was show me some evidence. You can’t or won’t.
Well, now, if memory serves…the absentee ballots in Florida were, at least technically, in the strictest sense of the law, inadmissable. They did not comply with the strictures in place. Gore backed down when the Pubbies began wrapping themselves in Old Glory and blubbering about “our heroes”, who’s happiness and well-being is ever foremost in their thoughts.
So Gore backed off. But here’s the thing: it wasn’t Gore’s call to make, any more than it was Bush’s. Both sides shrugged and let it go forward, but that doesn’t change the letter of the law.
As well, we have examples such as the one I brought forward, of Pubbie dirty tricks performed and approved by paid Pubbie campaign operatives. 'Tis a pity friend Moto is too distracted by other issues to explain to me the entire innocence of the adventure. No doubt he has an excellent explaination.
Well MM, I agree with you. I don’t think partisanship on either side is wise on this. I think it should be prosecuted. Always. Red or Blue.
I think the “preemptive strike” memo is much weaker evidence than it’s title suggests. And I don’t see how it constitutes fraud. The organized destruction of Democratic registrations OTOH, clearly is. And for anyone who regularly reads the news, it should be quite apparent, that this year the majority of the cases are Republican. Especially when one takes into account the number of voters elected.
It’s rather clear that the Republicans are benefitted from less new voters voting, so it’s hardly a leap to see who is behind it.
Gore’s campaign did it out in the open. They didn’t try to hide what they were doing, nor lie about it. They played hard ball, but that’s vastly different than fraud.
Well, I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt in my post above. You’re on your own now.
Mr. Moto, I don’t know if you’re not understanding the point or if you refuse to see it, but I’ll give explaining it a shot anyway.
No one is single-sided in their outrage of what’s going on. The point is, the incidents of democratic trickery are to be blamed on individual democrats. The incidents of republican trickery are to be blamed on the Republican Party.
There is greater disgust at the latter because it’s getting carried out and people are getting away with it on a large scale.
[sub]I’m sorry if there has been more discussion on this on page two, I admit I didn’t think it worth reading the whole thread just to see if there was anything further on this little sideshow[/sub]
What the fuck is up with this? Why the freakin’ hell should there be any need at all to say what party affiliation you may have on a registration form? What the hell? Is there any rational reason behind this at all?
Can’t say whether it’s rational, but here in Pennsylvania, primary elections are party-specific. All primaries are on the same day, but registered Democrats can only vote for Democratic candidates, etc. So, when you register to vote in Pennsylvania, you have to list a party affiliation if you want to be able to vote in the primaries. You can register without selecting a party, however. I believe other states work like this as well, although I am not 100% sure. As I understand it, the rationale behind this is to ensure (as much as is possible) that the particular party candidate is the one the party members actually want to vote for, as opposed to the one everybody else wants them to be stuck with.
I live in Pennsylvania and am a registered independent. I cannot vote in primary elections.
Also, just to add fuel to the fire, there was a voter registration fraud scandal here on the campus where I work. People were collecting signatures for a “legalize marijuana” petition and asking the signers to fill out a form to receive information by mail. This form, it seems, was a voter registration form. These were all marked as Republican and sent to the local registrar. So these students were unknowingly registered not only as Republican, but some are now unknowingly registered in the wrong place! Nobody is suggesting that this is a concerted effort by Republicans. I’m sure it’s just some yahoos thinking they’re funny, maybe even a Frat thing (pure speculation). But this is serious business and many students could be disenfranchised because of this.
I have to agree with Mr. Moto thatPeople have to stop pointing fingers at each isolated piece of fraud and blaming them on the parties (or on the NAACP.)
as if they’re part of a large conspiracy.
The same in Colorado. Independent voters can change to a party at the polls to vote in a primary, but those registered as a party member can only vote for the candidates for that party. Seems rational to me.
Actually, he was trying to hold Florida to own rules. The people trying to bend the rules were those pushing to allowing late ballots to be accepted, despite the law. Gore’s so-called attempt to disqualify late ballots was kept well within the legal system.