# Republicans don't give a CHIP about children's health care **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 27, 2017, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986 "2017-10-27T12:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/81 "2017-10-27T22:48:44Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’m still intrigued by **Bricker** ’s legal theory that the spending power of the U.S. government is Constitutionally limited by…itself. 😃 I imagine you’re also puzzled by shoelaces and those drinking bird toys. Since the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, what could possibly limit its power except itself? And if it grants Congress the power to spend, then obviously Congress must exercise that power by appropriation before it can spend. I’m sure it’s very confusing to you. You should focus on more liberal topics to calm yourself. Have your chakras been aligned? Is your living room Fung Shui’ed? Have you checked your privilege lately? Those things may help. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/82 "2017-10-27T22:49:48Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > He’s actually got a point there (for once, as far as this thread is concerned.) The constitution not only lays out how the government is structured, but also both its powers and limitations. For example, the constitution says the government can’t set the tax rate at “30%, and all your guns”. (More’s the pity.) Wow, that was sensible. Are you sure you’re a liberal? > [@](#): > > Of course, he’s totally full of crap about what he’s saying (and implying) the actual limitations _are_. This is likely because he’s of the opinion the constitution is nowhere near as limiting on government power as he wishes it were. And so he tries to convince us it’s what he wishes it were, instead of what it is. (Er, on the off chance we’re congressmen and/or judges and so distorting our opinion will alter actual law?) Never mind. Too good to last. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/83 "2017-10-27T22:54:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wow, that was sensible. Are you sure you’re a liberal? > > Never mind. Too good to last. I hope you realize that by your own standard of “going to respond from now on only to decent argument”, you would refuse to answer even one of your recent posts. Hell, you’d probably put yourself on ignore, or however that’s done around here. Perhaps you should consider calming the fuck down. And perhaps not defending a position when it turns out that it is, in fact, indefensible. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/84 "2017-10-27T22:55:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A tax cut is not a gift. > > Taxes are money you take away from people. A tax cut merely means you take away less money. A mugger doesn’t “gift” you by agreeing to only take your wallet and letting you keep your gold wedding ring. You are correct that the tax cut is not a gift. A gift is something that is given without payment, and these wealthy individuals paid their dues. They paid millions of dollars to the politicians to get billions back. So, good job, you got one right. They are not a gift, they are a product, bought and paid for by the .01%. > [@Bricker](#): > > Not running. Choosing to not address drooling moronic posts is not running. Choosing to only address the post that you can nitpick little point on to try to derail the discussion isn’t running, you are correct, running is when you catch yourself making a declarative statement like that we could never do anything to prevent another OKC bombing. Instead, you are doing your best to threadshit and distract. > [@](#): > > Tax cuts are not gifts. Hey I agree with you there. > [@](#): > > The liberal idea that reality can be be reshaped by choosing new vocabulary continues to entertain me. Liberals sometimes need to define vocabulary do describe reality as it changes. The republican idea that reality can be changed just by refusing to believe entertains me. > [@](#): > > It used to depress me, but now I realize how few state legislatures and state governors are Democrats, and how the House, Senate, and White House are all in Republican hands. (Admittedly an asterisk on the White House, but at least it’s not liberal). So now it just amuses me. At least you are amused that hate and intolerance is winning the day. I’ll be amused at some point, I suppose, when the hateful people that you support come after you and yours, with your ethnicity and your fancy lawyerin’, and leave me alone, because I’m a (very) white guy without a college degree. That will be a day of reckoning for myself, I suppose, do I stand up to defend you, putting myself in the way of the purge that is directed at you, or do I just shrug, and figure I may as well join the winning team, because that would be more amusing. > [@](#): > > Gosh, I hope I’m not triggering you. Nope, not at all. You conservatives with your redefining of words. Triggering someone is when you invoke PTSD type symptoms in people by exposing them to similar circumstances as a trauma that they endured. Rape victims, veterans of wars, stuff like that. Triggering is not when you threadshit and act like an ass on a messageboard, no matter how much you believe it to be. My only reaction to that is to see you acting like an ass on a message board, but, while at first I was surprised by how much of an ass you are, I’ve gotten pretty used to it, and you could never be such an ass that I would not forgive you, and would not come to your aid when the fascists that you justified and helped in getting into power come for you and yours. But it would be nice, if you would stop being such an ass. Wouldn’t you feel better about yourself, even? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/85 "2017-10-27T23:05:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But it would be nice, if you would stop being such an ass. Wouldn’t you feel better about yourself, even? And there it is. Somehow, this sentiment always makes an appearance. “Gee, Bricker, what makes you act so unpleasantly with no provocation whatsoever in this thread that started with a claim that Republicans are evil, huh?” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/86 "2017-10-27T23:07:27Z")
> [@](#): > > The liberal idea that reality can be be reshaped by choosing new vocabulary continues to entertain me. Hah. This from the guy who argued that the Bush Administration wasn’t torturing people because the Bush Administration re-defined the word torture so as not to include the Bush Administration’s preferred method of torture. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/87 "2017-10-27T23:07:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And there it is. > > Somehow, this sentiment always makes an appearance. “Gee, Bricker, what makes you act so unpleasantly with no provocation whatsoever in this thread that started with a claim that Republicans are evil, huh?” Well, it’s a fair question. Why _do_ you need to defend the republican-led congress’s act of carelessly allowing CHIP to expire? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/88 "2017-10-27T23:39:26Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Well, it’s a fair question. Why _do_ you need to defend the republican-led congress’s act of carelessly allowing CHIP to expire? I don’t need to defend it as a wise policy choice. But I do need to defend it against the claim that it’s evil. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/89 "2017-10-27T23:41:23Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Hah. This from the guy who argued that the Bush Administration wasn’t torturing people because the Bush Administration re-defined the word torture so as not to include the Bush Administration’s preferred method of torture. There it is again. “First we assume that the liberal-approved definition of a word is the only possible correct one. Then we prove that the liberal claim is correct. By citing to the liberal-approved definition.” Not a lot of heavy lifting in your debate circles, eh? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/90 "2017-10-27T23:51:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t need to defend it as a wise policy choice. > > But I do need to defend it against the claim that it’s evil. More precisely you were initially annoyed at republicans being called “The Party Of Evil”. This would be annoying because you’re a republican who did not personally participate in allowing the expiration of CHIP and you don’t like being painted with the same brush just because your elected representatives did this thing. Honestly though - do you really think it’s not at least a little evil to let children suffer and die? And to have attitudes that are totally cool with letting children suffer and die? Ain’t that at least a little bit naughty? Objectively speaking? And if you say “no - the children don’t have jobs by which to pay for insurance themselves, and thus they deserve to die horribly of the most horrible diseases possible because they’re slothful drains on the government monies”, then, er, well. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/91 "2017-10-28T00:01:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yeah, there will be quite a number of people who are going to wake up in a few weeks and find that their children can’t go to the doctor anymore. Many of them are going to be people that voted for republicans. It will be interesting to see if they put the lives of their own children over their desire to see tax cuts for the wealthy. I’m sorry to say, they will watch Fox News, and learn there that it’s Obama’s fault. And of course, Hillary’s emails. That will give them comfort. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/92 "2017-10-28T00:02:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I imagine you’re also puzzled by shoelaces and those drinking bird toys. And I imagine you get really involved in the individual steps of paying a bill by check, too. Important distinctions! > [@](#): > > Since the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, what could possibly limit its power except itself? And if it grants Congress the power to spend, then obviously Congress must exercise that power by appropriation before it can spend. Exactly. It must _write_ the check before _putting it in the mail_. Important distinctions! 🙂 But just like I enable myself to put the check in the mail by writing it, the government enables itself to spend the money by appropriating it. Describing the Constitutional _mechanism_ by which the government enables itself to spend money isn’t a Constitutional _limitation_ on the spending power. Article I, Section 9 doesn’t restrict what the government can spend its money on, nor how much it can spend. Those would be _limitations_, but the Constitution doesn’t have anything like that. Now that you’ve had your Civics lesson, you can spend the next fifteen minutes reviewing your vocabulary words, then we’ll have our spelling test. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/93 "2017-10-28T00:07:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There it is again. > > “First we assume that the liberal-approved definition of a word is the only possible correct one. Then we prove that the liberal claim is correct. By citing to the liberal-approved definition.” > Not a lot of heavy lifting in your debate circles, eh? First, I don’t know why you’re whining about liberals when it was your fellow Republicans doing the red-pen reshaping of reality you hypocritically claim to eschew. Second, I didn’t say what you’ve put in quotation marks. No one has. Those words are a product of your own imagination. There are words for such a technique: “straw-man argument” comes to mind, as does “bullshit”. Third, I do not refer to the “liberal-approved” definition of torture, I don’t know if there is one. I refer to the legal definition. It can be found [here](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2340). I imagine it was voted into law with the approval of both liberals and conservatives at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/94 "2017-10-28T00:09:49Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Please cite the article and section of the Constitution that limits what the government can spend money on. > [@James Madison](#): > > How about if we start by reading a quote from the guy who wrote the lion’s share of the Constitution? > “I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” Then let’s move on to Article 1, Section 8, which says EXACTLY what the government can do (enumerated powers)? > [@](#): > > Section 8 - Powers of Congress > The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to > pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United > States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; > To borrow money on the credit of the United States; > To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the > Indian Tribes; > To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of > Bankruptcies throughout the United States; > To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of > Weights and Measures; > To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the > United States; > To establish Post Offices and Post Roads; > To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to > Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; > To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court; > To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses > against the Law of Nations; > To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning > Captures on Land and Water; > To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a > longer Term than two Years; > To provide and maintain a Navy; > To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces; > To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress > Insurrections and repel Invasions; > To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such > Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the > States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the > Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; > To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not > exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance > of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise > like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in > which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and > other needful Buildings; And > To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the > foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of > the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. And then finish up by reading the 10th Amendment? > [@](#): > > The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/95 "2017-10-28T00:11:57Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > So you must be in favor of FEMA pulling out of Houston. Go preach that on street corners or local TV. Put up signs outside your McDojang. Get the word out that you and your fellow citizens won’t suck at the gub’mint teat any longer. > Advocate for higher local taxes to fix the storm damage. RC, you bring about as much value to a conversation as a case of jock rot. I cleared my ignore list a while back, but I’m putting you back on it simply because you are a sorry asshole. Fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/96 "2017-10-28T00:15:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > **Clothahump** was just reaching for an excuse Hate to bust your bubble, my friend, but I wasn’t reaching for anything. I was stating a fact. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/97 "2017-10-28T00:17:44Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > No one’s calling for a theocracy… If “we must do this because it says so in the Bible” is a valid argument for one thing, then it’s a valid argument for other things. That’s a theocracy. But we reject the argument that “we must do X because the Bible tells us so”, specifically because we are not a theocracy. (Not to mention that The Bible doesn’t tell us to do “X” in this case.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/98 "2017-10-28T00:22:12Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > More precisely you were initially annoyed at republicans being called “The Party Of Evil”. This would be annoying because you’re a republican who did not personally participate in allowing the expiration of CHIP and you don’t like being painted with the same brush just because your elected representatives did this thing. That’s not too far off base. > [@](#): > > Honestly though - do you really think it’s not at least a little evil to let children suffer and die? And to have attitudes that are totally cool with letting children suffer and die? Ain’t that at least a little bit naughty? Objectively speaking? I think it’s worse to to cheat in debate like that. Sure, it’s evil to let children suffer and die, if their suffering and death can be alleviated without some other sacrifice. But that was never the option. There’s a scene in the movie “Dave,” where Dave, impersonating the President, derails a Cabinet meeting in order to “find $650 million,” to save a homeless shelter. He asks one Cabinet secretary about some item in his budget, and the man protests that this item is important. “I’m sure that’s important,” Dave says. “But I don’t want to tell some eight year old kid he’s got to sleep in the street because we want people to feel better about their car. . . do you?” Defeated, the secretary agrees that he doesn’t either. That scene was presumably meant to highlight how simple these kinds of things really are, and if not for entrenched Washington interests, we’d be funding homeless shelters and CHIP programs right and left. What that scene actually does, though, is highlight the fundamentally simple understanding that the writers seem to have about programming federal expenditures, just as the above assertion from you reveals a similar simplistic view. Tell me: do YOU want children to die? Because I bet you’re not contributing your disposable income to St Jude Hospital or the Ronald McDonald House or the NIH Children’s Inn. I guess you’re also a heartless bastard? Or do you recognize that decisions about support don’t exist in a vacuum when it’s your money at stake? ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/99 "2017-10-28T00:52:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Tell me: do YOU want children to die? Because I bet you’re not contributing your disposable income to St Jude Hospital or the Ronald McDonald House or the NIH Children’s Inn. I guess you’re also a heartless bastard? I can’t for **begbert2** , but in the society I’d prefer to live in, that would be what my taxes are for. Some of us believe that it’s our collective responsibility as a civilized society to provide for the general welfare – and ensure life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness – of all our citizens, most especially the most vulnerable among them. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986/100 "2017-10-28T00:53:46Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > RC, you bring about as much value to a conversation as a case of jock rot. I cleared my ignore list a while back, but I’m putting you back on it simply because you are a sorry asshole. > > Fuck off. Sweep the leg, **Clothy** , sweep the leg. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-dont-give-a-chip-about-childrens-health-care/799986.md?page=6)