# Republicans for Obama: Can Obama win them/McCain lose them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346 "2008-10-10T17:11:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/1 "2008-10-10T17:11:25Z")
A few noteworthy Republicans have publicly announced their support for Obama – or withdrawn their support from McCain, which is not quite the same thing: [Lincoln Chafee, former Senator from Rhode Island:](http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ssf/2008/10/former_republican_senator_crit.html) > [@MLive.com](#): > > Lincoln Chafee, a former Republican U.S. senator from Rhode Island, is throwing his support behind Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, saying he is disillusioned with Republican John McCain. > > “Sen. Obama is the first Democrat I’ve ever voted for,” Chafee said during a stop in Grand Rapids this morning. > > He criticized McCain for pandering to the Republican Party’s right wing, a strategy he said is dividing the nation and would make it difficult for McCain to govern. > > “As he geared up for this 2008 election, it became a different John McCain who was pandering to the base,” said Chafee. “That’s what McCain is doing: dividing this country.” [Same article reveals ex-Michigan governor William Milliken (Republican) \*de-\*endorsing McCain:](http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ssf/2008/10/former_governor_milliken_backs.html) > [@MLive.com](#): > > He endorsed John McCain in the presidential primary, but now former Republican Gov. William Milliken is expressing doubts about his party’s nominee. > > “He is not the McCain I endorsed,” said Milliken, reached at his Traverse City home Thursday. "He keeps saying, ‘Who is Barack Obama?’ I would ask the question, ‘Who is John McCain?’ because his campaign has become rather disappointing to me. > > “I’m disappointed in the tenor and the personal attacks on the part of the McCain campaign, when he ought to be talking about the issues.” [Conservative _National Review_ columnist (and son of William F. Buckley) Christopher Buckley, reveals he’s disappointed in McCain and is voting for Obama:](http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-10-10/the-conservative-case-for-obama/) > [@Buckley](#): > > John McCain has changed. He said, famously, apropos the Republican debacle post-1994, “We came to Washington to change it, and Washington changed us.” This campaign has changed John McCain. It has made him inauthentic. A once-first class temperament has become irascible and snarly; his positions change, and lack coherence; he makes unrealistic promises, such as balancing the federal budget “by the end of my first term.” Who, really, believes that? Then there was the self-dramatizing and feckless suspension of his campaign over the financial crisis. His ninth-inning attack ads are mean-spirited and pointless. And finally, not to belabor it, there was the Palin nomination. What on earth can he have been thinking? > > All this is genuinely saddening, and for the country is perhaps even tragic, for America ought, really, to be governed by men like John McCain—who have spent their entire lives in its service, even willing to give the last full measure of their devotion to it. If he goes out losing ugly, it will be beyond tragic, graffiti on a marble bust. > > . . . Obama has in him—I think, despite his sometimes airy-fairy “We are the people we have been waiting for” silly rhetoric—the potential to be a good, perhaps even great leader. He is, it seems clear enough, what the historical moment seems to be calling for. > > So, I wish him all the best. We are all in this together. Necessity is the mother of bipartisanship. And so, for the first time in my life, I’ll be pulling the Democratic lever in November. As the saying goes, God save the United States of America. Meanwhile, though not endorsing Obama, conservative columnist David Brooks in [a recent face-to-face interview with _The Atlantic_’s Jeffrey Goldberg](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/08/david-brooks-sarah-palin_n_133001.html), expressed his disgust at McCain’s choice of Sarah Palin and admitted an admiration for Obama’s intellect and social instincts: > [@the Huffington Post's transcript of the interview](#): > > “(Sarah Palin) represents a fatal cancer to the Republican party. When I first started in journalism, I worked at the National Review for Bill Buckley. And Buckley famously said he’d rather be ruled by the first 2,000 names in the Boston phone book than by the Harvard faculty. But he didn’t think those were the only two options. He thought it was important to have people on the conservative side who celebrated ideas, who celebrated learning. And his whole life was based on that, and that was also true for a lot of the other conservatives in the Reagan era. Reagan had an immense faith in the power of ideas. But there has been a counter, more populist tradition, which is not only to scorn liberal ideas but to scorn ideas entirely. And I’m afraid that Sarah Palin has those prejudices. I think President Bush has those prejudices.” > > Brooks praised Palin’s natural political talent, but said she is “absolutely not” ready to be president or vice president. He explained, “The more I follow politicians, the more I think experience matters, the ability to have a template of things in your mind that you can refer to on the spot, because believe me, once in office there’s no time to think or make decisions.” > > . . . Brooks also spent time praising Obama’s intellect and skills in social perception, telling two stories of his interactions with Obama that left him “dazzled”: > > “Obama has the great intellect. I was interviewing Obama a couple years ago, and I’m getting nowhere with the interview, it’s late in the night, he’s on the phone, walking off the Senate floor, he’s cranky. Out of the blue I say, ‘Ever read a guy named Reinhold Niebuhr?’ And he says, ‘Yeah.’ So i say, ‘What did Niebuhr mean to you?’ For the next 20 minutes, he gave me a perfect description of Reinhold Niebuhr’s thought, which is a very subtle thought process based on the idea that you have to use power while it corrupts you. And I was dazzled, I felt the tingle up my knee as Chris Matthews would say.” > > . . . Brooks predicted an Obama victory by nine points, and said that although he found Obama to be “a very mediocre senator,” he was is surrounded by what Brooks called “by far the most impressive people in the Democratic party.” > > “He’s phenomenally good at surrounding himself with a team,” Brooks said. “I disagree with them on most issues, but I am given a lot of comfort by the fact that the people he’s chosen are exactly the people I think most of us would want to choose if we were in his shoes. So again, I have doubts about him just because he was such a mediocre senator, but his capacity to pick staff is impressive.” I’m sure there are others. Some believe that people such as Chuck Hegel, Colin Powell, Olympia Snowe, and George Will might not endorse Obama but will refuse to endorse McCain either. Will such defections influence voters? Now, of course there have been some Democrats who have endorsed McCain, Joe Lieberman (who’s not even a Democrat anymore) not included. But IMO that’s not nearly as noteworthy as Republicans switching sides. After all, Democrats are notorious for not behaving cohesively as a team; to paraphrase what’s often said about my fellow Jewish folks, put two Democrats in a room and you’ll get three opinions. Republicans, OTOH, know how to show brand loyalty, as it were – while there’s a rainbow of Republican ideas just as there is a rainbow of Democratic ones, the right usually knows when it’s important to band together and present a unified voice against the opposition. (Republicans in congress seem to vote as a block much more successfully than their Democratic colleagues.) So that’s why these defections and dissentions within the ranks come as a surprise and are worthy of public attention. Are they rats leaving what they believe is a sinking ship, or are they the kid pointing out the emperor’s naked? Cheap opportunists grabbing onto power no matter where it lies, or honest conservatives holding true to their ideals? And which Republicans – yet to be heard from – do you think most likely to go for Obama, either via a public endorsement or a private vote? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/2 "2008-10-10T17:46:37Z")
And yeah George Will has indeed not quite [endorsed Obama](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/mccains_temperment_fails_again.html) but has come close. > [@](#): > > It is arguable that, because of his inexperience, Obama is not ready for the presidency. It is arguable that McCain, because of his boiling moralism and bottomless reservoir of certitudes, is not suited to the presidency. Unreadiness can be corrected, although perhaps at great cost, by experience. Can a dismaying temperament be fixed? [Krauthammer](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/obama_passing_the_reagan_thres.html) is still dissing Obama but has expressed his respect for him and his disgust with McCain as well. > [@](#): > > He tempted fate one time too many. After climbing up on his high horse, McCain had to climb down. The crisis unresolved, he showed up at the debate regardless, rather abjectly conceding Obama’s mocking retort that presidential candidates should be able to do “more than one thing at once.” … > … Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. famously said of Franklin Roosevelt that he had a “second-class intellect, but a first-class temperament.” Obama has shown that he is a man of limited experience, questionable convictions, deeply troubling associations (Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers, Tony Rezko) and an alarming lack of self- definition – do you really know who he is and what he believes? Nonetheless, he’s got both a first-class intellect and a first-class temperament. That will likely be enough to make him president. That said I do not think that any Republican endorsements matter at this point. Powell? Bloomberg? The time when their endorsement could matter is past. And Bloomberg has his own fish to fry. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/3 "2008-10-10T17:59:20Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > That said I do not think that any Republican endorsements matter at this point. Powell? Bloomberg? The time when their endorsement could matter is past. And Bloomberg has his own fish to fry. I disagree about Powell. He would be a phenomenal coup for Obama, and I really wouldn’t be surprised if he is the Ace up that campaign’s sleeve. Who would have more authority to give McCain a bodyblow than another highly-revered military commander (one who actually _has_ won a war!) rushing to Obama’s defense? I want to believe that the more he sees McCain dragging Obama through the mud and exploiting the race-based fear-mongering, the more Powell is going to be pushed off that fence and compelled to take a stand. He won’t convince the racists, but he is one of the few people in American who could credibly question McCain’s honor in the way he’s conducting his campaign and get a free pass even from Fox. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/4 "2008-10-10T18:17:58Z")
I agree that a Powell endorsement would provide a perhaps-crippling blow to the McCain campaign, but to say > [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > he is one of the few people in American who could credibly question McCain’s honor in the way he’s conducting his campaign and get a free pass even from Fox. might be going just a wee bit too far. Dunno what Fox would say, but giving Powell a free pass seems unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/5 "2008-10-10T20:56:00Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > I agree that a Powell endorsement would provide a perhaps-crippling blow to the McCain campaign, but to say > > might be going just a wee bit too far. Dunno what Fox would say, but giving Powell a free pass seems unlikely. It might be hard even for Fox to attack a Republican war hero. But I don’t know. Powell could have run in 2000 (and I would have voted for him) but he chickened out. Maybe he’s thinking that he could have been the first African-American president, not Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/6 "2008-10-10T20:59:45Z")
And along these lines, will we see defections from the ranks of liberal Republicans (the few that are left?) Maybe they stayed in the party to be a part of the majority, but now that Bush and McCain have trashed the party pretty badly, maybe it is time for them to switch. The hard right will attack them in primaries anyway, and in places like the East and California hard right Republicans have no chance in the general election. Being able to justify their decision on moral arguments, not political expediency, might make it easier. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/7 "2008-10-10T21:06:49Z")
Powell’s too busy attesting to Ted Stevens’ [sterling character](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/10/stevens.trial/index.html?eref=rss_politics&iref=polticker) to worry about presidential politics. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/8 "2008-10-10T21:11:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Powell could have run in 2000 (and I would have voted for him) but he chickened out. From what I gather, a lot of that had to do with his wife worried about his safety if he did run. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/9 "2008-10-10T23:22:52Z")
> [@choie](#): > > So that’s why these defections and dissentions within the ranks come as a surprise and are worthy of public attention. Are they rats leaving what they believe is a sinking ship, or are they the kid pointing out the emperor’s naked? Cheap opportunists grabbing onto power no matter where it lies, or honest conservatives holding true to their ideals? Why can they not be all of those things at once? ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/10 "2008-10-10T23:25:30Z")
Slight hijack, but **DSeid’s** post stirred up a fear that has been brewing in my gut for awhile, and I could use the reassurance. There is no chance that, in a true October surprise, Palin could step down and Powell step in, is there? I think he is the only one that could save that ticket. But that’s just crazy talk right? Right? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/11 "2008-10-11T00:11:33Z")
I have to agree that if Powell endorsed Obama, FOX would not be beyond turning against him. They’d do so carefully, but some of their pundits (Rush and Hannity most likely) would imply that the black mafia had gotten to Powell – race being stronger than ideals. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why can they not be all of those things at once? Heh. Well, of course they can be, but I was interested to hear what others thought about each case. > [@tds1273](#): > > Slight hijack, but **DSeid’s** post stirred up a fear that has been brewing in my gut for awhile, and I could use the reassurance. There is no chance that, in a true October surprise, Palin could step down and Powell step in, is there? I think he is the only one that could save that ticket. But that’s just crazy talk right? Right? Yes. The people holding control of the Republican party are the religious right, the ones who seem to have forced McCain to go with Palin rather than Lieberman (according to an NYT article quoting McCain advisers). I can’t see them allowing her to be dropped from the ticket for a guy as moderate as Powell allegedly is. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/12 "2008-10-11T00:21:48Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It might be hard even for Fox to attack a Republican war hero. But I don’t know. \ Powell’s black. Of course FOX will attack him. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/13 "2008-10-11T00:24:46Z")
> [@tds1273](#): > > Slight hijack, but **DSeid’s** post stirred up a fear that has been brewing in my gut for awhile, and I could use the reassurance. There is no chance that, in a true October surprise, Palin could step down and Powell step in, is there? I think he is the only one that could save that ticket. But that’s just crazy talk right? Right? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/14 "2008-10-11T00:28:09Z")
McCain drew jeers from his own crowd of supporters when he tried to dial down the crazy by assuring one man that Obama was actually a good person with whom he just had policy differences, and telling a woman that Obama wasn’t really an Arab. Really, he’s not! So yeah, if he keeps on being reasonable and honest like that, he’ll lose quite a bit of the radical right. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/15 "2008-10-11T00:41:19Z")
> [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](#): > > McCain drew jeers from his own crowd of supporters when he tried to dial down the crazy by assuring one man that Obama was actually a good person with whom he just had policy differences, and telling a woman that Obama wasn’t really an Arab. Really, he’s not! > > So yeah, if he keeps on being reasonable and honest like that, he’ll lose quite a bit of the radical right. I like to peruse Free Republic on occassion, just for shits and giggles. Some of them are seriously saying that Obama’s going to turn the nation into a marxist dictatorship, and that it’s all McCain’s fault. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/16 "2008-10-11T06:33:27Z")
Besides the “name” Republicans, McCain it would appear is also losing the [sane segments](http://www.republicansforobama.org/) of the rank and file. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/17 "2008-10-13T03:36:04Z")
Bumping the thread 'cause McCain’s pissing off some even bigger Republican names: [Mitt Romney and Tommy Thompson](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/republican-leaders-break-ranks--with-mccain-959301.html). This is especially notable because usually once a primary is over, the former rivals line up to endorse their party’s standard bearer. (Even the Clintons have joined the Obama/Biden cheerleading squad.) Well, apparently Thompson and Romney are Not Pleased with their nominee. And even more Republicans are backing slowly away from the lurching McCain. > [@The Independent](#): > > Two former rivals for the party nomination, Mitt Romney and Tommy Thompson, went on the record over the weekend about the disarray in the Republican camp. And a string of other senior party figures said Mr McCain’s erratic performance risks taking the party down to heavy losses not just in the presidential race but also in contests for Congressional seats. Mr Thompson, a former governor of the swing state of Wisconsin, said he thought Mr McCain, on his present trajectory, would lose the state, and he told a New York Times reporter he was not happy with the campaign. “I don’t know who is,” he added. > > Some Republicans seeking election to Congress have begun distancing themselves from Mr McCain. In Nebraska, a Republican representative, Lee Terry, ran a newspaper ad featuring support from a woman who called herself an “Obama-Terry voter”. What’s the opposite of coat-tails? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/18 "2008-10-13T05:08:56Z")
> [@choie](#): > > What’s the opposite of coat-tails? A shit slide? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-for-obama-can-obama-win-them-mccain-lose-them/467346/19 "2008-10-13T05:20:07Z")
I think if Colin Powell were going to endorse Obama, he would have done it already. His not endorsing McCain is about as far as the investigator of Mi Lai will go.