# Republicans, help me understand the thinking (of Trump) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 14, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421 "2015-12-14T15:01:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/41 "2015-12-14T23:37:08Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You left out the part about him being black. No, they’d feel the same way about a white guy who was a democrat. Bill Clinton is my cite. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/42 "2015-12-14T23:54:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > This is apparently untrue. It’s not true? So the [article in the Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/02/americans-obama-anti-christ-conspiracy-theories) was not correct, and there was no survey conducted by Public Policy Polling? Or the survey was not correct? Or there were errors in the way it was conducted? How is it untrue? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/43 "2015-12-14T23:57:28Z")
Did you read the rest of my post, or just the 4 words you quoted? The rest of the post is where I explained what I meant … ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/44 "2015-12-15T00:09:07Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Did you read the rest of my post, or just the 4 words you quoted? The rest of the post is where I explained what I meant … Sure. Because some self-identified “democrats” answered in the affirmative, this makes the whole poll “untrue”. Right. There is no polarization in politics in the US. I just made that up. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/45 "2015-12-15T04:53:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The fact is that both McCain and Romney _did_ run to the center in the primaries and to the right in the general election. This is an idiotic move, and it’s not at all clear just why they did it, but the fact is, they did. Is Rubio going to do the same thing? Well, it’s possible. I don’t know why he would, but then, I don’t know why McCain and Romney did, either. I don’t believe this is true. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/46 "2015-12-15T05:01:02Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Thread title changed for clarity. You got it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/47 "2015-12-15T05:02:25Z")
I think Trump scares establishment republicans for many reasons 1. He is independently wealthy, so he wouldn’t be controlled by donors 2. He puts nationalism above business interests, which I’m sure pisses off the business community. His stances on trade, immigration, lobbying, social security & medicare, etc. are at odds with the business class who run the GOP 3. He may run as an independent, or get his base so excited they refuse to vote for anyone but him There are probably other reasons, but those seem like major reasons why they hate him. As far as the primary, in both 2008 and 2012 I think the GOP picked the most ‘electable’ republican they could in the primary, and they lost both times. McCain and Romney were supposed to be the moderates who could pull moderate votes, and they both lost. So I would assume after 8 years of Obama, the GOP base might want a true conservative instead of a more moderate one (at least according to their beliefs). ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/48 "2015-12-15T14:36:03Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Sure. Because some self-identified “democrats” answered in the affirmative, this makes the whole poll “untrue”. No, it doesn’t make “the whole poll ‘untrue’”. I didn’t say the whole poll was untrue. I was commenting on your post, which contained your own extrapolations from that poll. You claimed that “_You don’t negotiate with the antichrist. He is the literal embodiment of evil walking upon the earth. He wants nothing less than the entire destruction of the entire human race, for all eternity_.” The fact that 5% of Obama voters believed he was the antichrist suggests that there are a lot of people out there who don’t share this definition of antichrist, and undermines your claim. Further you said “_This is how polarized politics has become in the United States today. You can’t get more polarized than this_.” This seems to rest on your claim about the connotation of the term “antichrist” and falls along with it. And in any event, the fact that a decent number of people from both parties and ideologies believes (according to this poll) that same thing itself contradicts your claim that “you can’t get more polarized than this”. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/49 "2015-12-15T15:07:23Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > That’s a broad brush, innit? I never considered McCain extreme (much less the most extreme), dishonest (much less the most dishonest), or unethical (much less the most unethical). Yes, but some jabberings are too vacuous to discuss. Let’s not give the “broad brush” a bad name. 😃 Sometimes I think the Democrats have a better understanding of GOP candidates than the Republicans do. One Doper recently gushed over Romney … and wants to support Cruz this time. :smack: Romney, Christie seem like liberals compared with most Republicans, while to call Cruz an “extremist” would be insulting to extremists. A few years ago, I’d have called Kasich or Jeb! “right-wingers” but compared with today’s front-runners, they’re moderates. At this point I don’t know whether to root for Jeb! to get the nomination (minimize the damage if the GOP takes the White House) or Cruz (less likely to beat Hillary, I hope, but would be utterly disastrous if he did). ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/50 "2015-12-15T15:33:55Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The fact that 5% of Obama voters believed he was the antichrist suggests that there are a lot of people out there who don’t share this definition of antichrist, and undermines your claim. Naw, I’d say it’s more likely that 5% of people were trolling the pollsters for whatever reason. You could get 5% of people to agree to anything on a poll. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/51 "2015-12-15T15:47:53Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Naw, I’d say it’s more likely that 5% of people were trolling the pollsters for whatever reason. You could get 5% of people to agree to anything on a poll. Yeah – which is more likely: 5% of Obama supporters did some combination of misunderstanding the question, trolling the pollster, and pressing the wrong button on the phone/clicking the wrong answer, or 5% of Obama supporters believe that he is the actual antichrist? The first seems more likely to me than the second. The same goes for other nonsensical polling results – I would presume that pollsters recognize this phenomenon and correct for it somehow. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/52 "2015-12-15T16:01:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The same goes for other nonsensical polling results – I would presume that pollsters recognize this phenomenon and correct for it somehow. Speaking as a professional market researcher: this is why you survey a big sample (and, yes, a sample of 300 or so people – which is what many political polls use – is, in fact, a “big sample”). You will \*\*always \*\*have a small number of people who are either messing with the interview, or confused, and thus give answers which may not make sense. It’s why, when reading research / poll results, you should _never_ get excited about any weird numbers in the low single digits. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/53 "2015-12-15T16:34:49Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > But conversely (or so it seems to me) that the GOP base feels that Cruz is the better choice. I’m basically a Dem but I have voted the other way in the past. As such, there is no way in hell that I would ever vote for Cruz. Just out of curiosity, why not? He’s one of the better people running for the office in any party, so I’m curious. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/54 "2015-12-15T16:44:54Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Speaking as a professional market researcher: this is why you survey a big sample (and, yes, a sample of 300 or so people – which is what many political polls use – is, in fact, a “big sample”). You will \*\*always \*\*have a small number of people who are either messing with the interview, or confused, and thus give answers which may not make sense. > > It’s why, when reading research / poll results, you should _never_ get excited about any weird numbers in the low single digits. If you ask me, you would also avoid asking questions that are not clearly defined. I’m not very up on christ-antichrist theology, and it’s not a term you see bandied around a lot in ordinary discourse, but my feeling is that a lot of people use the term as something other than its strict historical/theological sense. It’s also worth noting that, as mentioned before, the percentage of “very liberal” people who described him that way was 8%. This is consistent with the responses to other questions in that particular poll, which showed people at the political extremes being more likely to believe in all sorts of fringe beliefs (e.g. Lizard People controlling the world), which suggests that it was not people who are confused etc., which would be expected to be more randomly distributed. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/55 "2015-12-15T16:54:28Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > No, it doesn’t make “the whole poll ‘untrue’”. I didn’t say the whole poll was untrue. I was commenting on your post, which contained your own extrapolations from that poll. I look forward to more of your amazing math abilities, in which you posit that 20% is the same as 6%. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/56 "2015-12-15T17:00:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > No, it doesn’t make “the whole poll ‘untrue’”. I didn’t say the whole poll was untrue. I was commenting on your post, which contained your own extrapolations from that poll. > > You claimed that “_You don’t negotiate with the antichrist. He is the literal embodiment of evil walking upon the earth. He wants nothing less than the entire destruction of the entire human race, for all eternity_.” The fact that 5% of Obama voters believed he was the antichrist suggests that there are a lot of people out there who don’t share this definition of antichrist, and undermines your claim. Further you said “_This is how polarized politics has become in the United States today. You can’t get more polarized than this_.” This seems to rest on your claim about the connotation of the term “antichrist” and falls along with it. And in any event, the fact that a decent number of people from both parties and ideologies believes (according to this poll) that same thing itself contradicts your claim that “you can’t get more polarized than this”. Have you considered that some people were joking in the Democratic poll? Or that some, like me, would find it hilarious to vote for the anti-christ, or are otherwise evil? It doesn’t at all refute the point Euphonius made ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/57 "2015-12-15T17:37:36Z")
You guys are trying to have it both ways. You’re taking the same poll responses, and when it’s Democrats you wave it away as joking, confusion etc., and when it’s Republicans giving the exact same responses it means they literally think “_he wants nothing less than the entire destruction of the entire human race, for all eternity_”. If you ask me, these types of selective interpretation say more about polarization of today’s politics than that poll does … ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/58 "2015-12-15T17:53:23Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You guys are trying to have it both ways. You’re taking the same poll responses, and when it’s Democrats you wave it away as joking, confusion etc., and when it’s Republicans giving the exact same responses it means they literally think “_he wants nothing less than the entire destruction of the entire human race, for all eternity_”. I am? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/59 "2015-12-15T18:15:59Z")
Sure, but the important thing to remember is that both sides do it. Just about every Republican and a couple of Dems, so that’s totally equivalent! Maybe not\* numerically\* equivalent, but _morally_, which means that on principles of humanity, they are essentially the same. Did I mention that both sides do it? Well, they do. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421/60 "2015-12-15T18:29:00Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You guys are trying to have it both ways. You’re taking the same poll responses, and when it’s Democrats you wave it away as joking, confusion etc., and when it’s Republicans giving the exact same responses it means they literally think “_he wants nothing less than the entire destruction of the entire human race, for all eternity_”. The numbers were (IIRC) 5% of Democrats, and 26% of Republicans. As noted above, in any survey, you get a small number of weird responses (trolls, confused, etc.) A 5% response can explain that. So, for the sake of argument, let’s assume that that 5% “weird / not serious” figure can apply to the Republican respondents, too. Even if you take that into account, that still leaves 21% of Republican respondents who were apparently serious when they indicated that they think Obama is the Antichrist. That’s the difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-help-me-understand-the-thinking-of-trump/740421.md?page=4)