# Republicans seem hell bent on nominating an unqualified candidate for president **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 21, 2015, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088 "2015-09-21T09:58:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/21 "2015-09-21T16:48:19Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Republicans get elected by promising things they can’t, won’t or don’t want to do, now they are facing the backlash. I think it is also the logical conclusion of the anti-government sentiment that has dominated the GOP rhetoric for the past few decades. If you truly believe that government has no value and only causes harm, then you wouldn’t want to elect anyone who was in any way associated with it. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/22 "2015-09-21T16:51:53Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m no fan of Fiorina, but it’s wrong to say she’s never increased the value of a business venture. Your own quote from your own cite says that much of the alleged growth in Lucent was an illusion created by sleazy accounting. Not exactly a confidence-building revelation. And HP under her stewardship [was an unmitigated disaster](http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurengensler/2015/09/17/trump-fiorina-hewlett-packard-disaster-election-2016/). ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/23 "2015-09-21T16:58:56Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Definitely this. > > At this time in the last election cycle, it was Rick Perry by a landslide. Where was he when it came time to vote? I think we’ll be asking the same about the current top three in about the same time frame. But even then Romney was in second place. Now you have to go to 4th place before you get someone in the main stream. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/24 "2015-09-21T17:13:17Z")
I’m sure that Fiorina has, at some points in her career, added some positive amount of value. But over the course of her entire career, her total is decidedly negative, while mine is still positive. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/25 "2015-09-21T17:24:28Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Your own quote from your own cite says that much of the alleged growth in Lucent was an illusion created by sleazy accounting. Not exactly a confidence-building revelation. And HP under her stewardship [was an unmitigated disaster](http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurengensler/2015/09/17/trump-fiorina-hewlett-packard-disaster-election-2016/). No, that’s not what the quote says. You have editorialized the facts alleging “sleazy accounting”. That’s silly. It’s following GAAP, debts go on the balance sheet, interest income from loans goes on the P&L. Seller financed sales can be good or bad, but they are legitimate tools of business and the accounting for them is clear. In any event, people can evaluate how good or bad a deal various business transactions were, but it is factually wrong to say that she’s never increased the value of a business venture. By the rules that she operated under, that assertion is demonstrably false. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/26 "2015-09-21T18:37:17Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > But even then Romney was in second place. Now you have to go to 4th place before you get someone in the main stream. That is true. I’ve been thinking it’s because the more moderate/establishment voters were split among the bigger field, but the top three have such a large percentage now that my theory doesn’t work so well any more. Still, I think the rapid rise and fall of so many candidates in the last cycle means that what we’re seeing right now will not be representative of the actual choices available six months from now. And if I’m wrong… I guess I’ll just go vote for a Democrat. I’m in solid blue Washington state, so it’s not like the GOP is counting on my vote anyway. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/27 "2015-09-21T20:24:59Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > So the party that claims to value tradition seems determined to throw out this tradition and roll the dice with someone who has no relevant experience to the job. It’s insane. Why are you blaming the party? They have no control over what people say in polls. And those polls are meaningless. Who cares what people tell poll takers? Not a single vote has been cast yet. I remember back in 2003/2004 when Howie Dean was all the rage. After the actual votes were tallied he didn’t get squat! Where were all those people that liked him in the previous polls before the actual voting took place? It doesn’t matter. They were meaningless. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > So the party that claims to value tradition seems determined to throw out this tradition and roll the dice with someone who has no relevant experience to the job. They’ve done it before. Ever heard of a chap named Wendell Willkie? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/28 "2015-09-21T20:30:20Z")
The people _are_ the party - that is, the polls are generally of registered Republicans who plan to vote in the primaries. But yes, it’s definitely too early to draw any conclusions about this. Herman Cain was dismissing Oo-becky-becky-stan-stan at this time last year, to rapturous applause among the same sort of people who want Trump and Carson. I am actually starting to warm to Fiorina very slightly, if only because Trump keeps attacking her. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/29 "2015-09-21T21:16:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Experience is important, but I don’t get the sense that even the informed voters know what experience is helpful and what is useless, so does it really matter? Yourself included, since you seem to consistently favorably compare governors, who have some minor executive experience, with Senators, who actually operate on a national stage and have significant domain experience with national political issues. For example: > [@](#): > > I dare say that electing a career legislator to an executive office is as useless as electing a beekeeper to the office. A lot of people that really should know better seem to think that “government experience” is all equivalent, and that private sector experience, even using skills that are directly applicable to being an executive, aren’t nearly as useful. That’s just utter, complete nonsense. Look at a guy like LBJ, who was a ‘career legislator.’ As president, he was significantly more capable at getting legislation passed and ‘getting things done’ than pretty much anyone else who has served in that office. His big weakness was foreign policy, where he didn’t have any particular domain experience, even as a Senator. Domain experience - the kind that Senators have and governors do not - is enormously valuable. Can some governors turn into effective presidents? Yes, your once-a-generation political talents can make it work. But did you think Bush was out of his depth? Carter? > [@Bone](#): > > This is shortsighted. It’s not like Fiorina woke up one day and was CEO of HP. She spent years working her way up the corporate ladder, arguably performing better than her peers. I’m spent my career in private industry, and am extremely uncynical about the talents of people who have risen to high levels the hierarchy, and that’s just VPs and the like. CEOs must demonstrate some considerable talent _just to get there._ But - here’s the thing. Once there, Fiorina failed spectacularly. She absolutely should not be allowed to fail upwards into the presidency. Similarly, I think Steve Ballmer is a fantastically intelligent, capable guy. But once he got to CEO, he thoroughly demonstrated a lack of vision and creativity necessary to keep Microsoft at the top of its game. Should he be president? Certainly not. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/30 "2015-09-21T22:23:15Z")
I was going to namecheck LBJ if no one else did–good call. Really, the ideal preparation IMO would be to have been both in the Senate, for the national government and potentially foreign policy experience, and a governor for the executive experience. So on the Republican side, that would be people like Lamar Alexander, John Hoeven, or Jim Risch; Democrats include Tom Carper, Mark Warner, or Tim Kaine (both of the last two having been governors of Virginia, a pretty good trick). Angus King could run on this resume as an independent, although he does caucus with the Democrats. (Joe Manchin has had both jobs, but if he were the Democratic nominee for president, I’d have to quit the party.) Agree that Fiorina is delusional to think her resume speaks well of her. I will give her credit, though: she has nifty political skills (which I imagine most CEOs must have). She manages to explain away her business failings in what seems like a convincing manner, and she gives good sound bite. Herman Cain is just a facepalm. Does anyone want to argue with a straight face that a neurosurgeon, identical in every way except for being Caucasian, would be getting any traction whatsoever among the GOP electorate? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/31 "2015-09-21T22:36:44Z")
And how was LBJ at managing a war? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/32 "2015-09-21T22:38:26Z")
I suspect a damn sight better than someone randomly picked out of the phone book would have been. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/33 "2015-09-21T22:48:04Z")
But worse than someone who has actually had to lead. Senators don’t lead. They are masters at shifting blame though. Obama won’t even take responsibility for the failure of his own Syria policy. Apparently it’s Congress’ fault for urging him to arm Syrian rebels. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/34 "2015-09-21T22:53:25Z")
I think the Senate Majority Leader does lead, by definition. And to say LBJ was not a strong leader is laughable. I’d say Obama’s Syria policy was seriously undermined by the fact that he tried to take a red-line stance toward Assad, and was undercut by Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/35 "2015-09-21T22:55:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And how was LBJ at managing a war? As I already said, bad. He failed at foreign policy (specifically around Vietnam.) He had no experience with foreign policy, and domain experience matters. > [@](#): > > Obama won’t even take responsibility for the failure of his own Syria policy. For starters, he hasn’t failed. It’s a shitty situation where has done a fairly good job keeping us distant. I wouldn’t mind seeing the US commit to taking on more refugees, though. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/36 "2015-09-21T22:56:32Z")
He was undercut by the fact that he thinks bluffing is appropriate in foreign policy. LBJ was strong with Congress, not so much in foreign affairs. And his management of his treasured Great Society was non-existent. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/37 "2015-09-21T23:05:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But worse than someone who has actually had to lead. Senators don’t lead. They are masters at shifting blame though. Obama won’t even take responsibility for the failure of his own Syria policy. Apparently it’s Congress’ fault for urging him to arm Syrian rebels. I wouldn’t make that a blanket statement. There are both official and unofficial leadership roles in the Senate. It’s a different leadership style than an authoritarian CEO - you can’t just issue orders and fire people who refuse - but committee leaders, majority leaders, and just plain influential senators play key roles in building groups and putting laws together. There are definitely leaders and followers among the Senate. In modern politics, we see it as the President’s role to get things passed through Congress, so an ability to deal with the Congress is an important area of experience for a Presidential candidate. Even other executive-branch officials (like a state governor) have experience dealing with legislators that a CEO doesn’t. So, let’s name-drop some Presidents who served in legislature ([Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_by_previous_experience)): Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Jackson, Lincoln, Johnson (both), Roosevelt (both), Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Carter… In fact, the only thing you won’t find on that Wikipedia list? People who went straight from CEO to President. They’ve all had some political experience, even if only in the military or cabinet. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/38 "2015-09-21T23:06:39Z")
Bullshit. You say that because you fundamentally disagree with the aims of the Great Society. Funny though how Reagan’s warnings that Medicare was the harbinger of total loss of individual freedom look the opposite of prophetic today. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/39 "2015-09-21T23:07:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He was undercut by the fact that he thinks bluffing is appropriate in foreign policy. I don’t think we need another thread about how much you hate Obama, so I’ll let this drop. > [@](#): > > LBJ was strong with Congress, not so much in foreign affairs. And his management of his treasured Great Society was non-existent. For the third time, yes, people shouldn’t be trusted to be strong on issues where they have zero domain experience. For LBJ, this included foreign affairs. For governors, this includes all issues of national relevance. Is that getting through? Or would you like to simply opine on LBJ’s management of the Vietnam war again? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088/40 "2015-09-21T23:14:00Z")
Governors manage the implementation of programs. Senators do not. LBJ did not. The new bureaucracies in the War on Poverty in particular went running off in all directions doing their own thing with little direction from the White House. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-seem-hell-bent-on-nominating-an-unqualified-candidate-for-president/732088.md?page=3)