# Republicans set to challenge Ohio voters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557 "2004-11-02T15:29:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/1 "2004-11-02T15:29:40Z")
The courts have ruled that challengers may be present at the polls in Ohio. The Republicans are thrilled and are sending 3,500 people out today to challenge “fraudulent” voters. This just frosts me! How do you spot a fraudulent voter? Do Republicans have some special sense of “fraud-dar” that enables them to screen out the bad voters? Let me take a guess. “Fraudulent” voters are people who live in lower-income precincts, people who have darker-colored skin and people who speak with accents. How many challenges will these people make in white, suburban precincts? How many people who speak English as a second language will be intimidated by these people? How many legitimate voters will be turned away because they didn’t bring the proper documentation with them to the polls while equally unprepared people in Republican strongholds will not be challenged? How many people will have to give up on voting because of extra delays caused by groundless challenges? Why are trained poll workers insufficient? The Republicans say they want to keep dead people from voting. Are they looking for corpses entering the polls? This is a shameless attempt to stifle the non-white, non-affluent vote in Ohio. It disgusts me to the marrow. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/2 "2004-11-02T15:34:43Z")
> [@Captain Lance Murdoch](#): > > The courts have ruled that challengers may be present at the polls in Ohio. The Republicans are thrilled and are sending 3,500 people out today to challenge “fraudulent” voters. This just frosts me! > > How do you spot a fraudulent voter? Do Republicans have some special sense of “fraud-dar” that enables them to screen out the bad voters? Let me take a guess. “Fraudulent” voters are people who live in lower-income precincts, people who have darker-colored skin and people who speak with accents. No. Potebtially fraudlant voters are those who provided addresses that got kicked back as “undeliverable” by the post office. > [@](#): > > How many challenges will these people make in white, suburban precincts? How many people who speak English as a second language will be intimidated by these people? How many legitimate voters will be turned away because they didn’t bring the proper documentation with them to the polls while equally unprepared people in Republican strongholds will not be challenged? How many people will have to give up on voting because of extra delays caused by groundless challenges? Why are trained poll workers insufficient? Why is it that Democrats sought out people in minority neighborhoods to register? Why is it that they took anyone with a pulse, even if they may have been non-residents, provided phony addresses, which got returned by the post office? > [@](#): > > The Republicans say they want to keep dead people from voting. Are they looking for corpses entering the polls? No. They have a list of dead people. When someone appears claiming to be that person, they challenge him as a likely fraudulent voter. It’s very simple. > [@](#): > > This is a shameless attempt to stifle the non-white, non-affluent vote in Ohio. It disgusts me to the marrow. No, it’s an attempt to ensure that votes are cast only by people eligible to vote, not people masquerading as dead people, or people falsely claiming to be Ohio residents but providing phony addresses. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/3 "2004-11-02T15:41:27Z")
Forget the dead people, that’s fine with me. I bet they’re going to disqualify people for not dotting their "i"s and crossing their "t"s ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/4 "2004-11-02T15:46:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, it’s an attempt to ensure that votes are cast only by people eligible to vote, not people masquerading as dead people, or people falsely claiming to be Ohio residents but providing phony addresses. If it were only that, I would not object to it. But it’s not. It also has the handy side effect of slowing down the voting process, increasing the length of time that people have to wait, which will reduce turnout. Not only does lower turnout generally favor Republicans, lower turnout in specific neighborhoods strongly favors them. Yes, it’s legal. Yes, the Democrats can (and doubtless will) do it too. Nonetheless, do you really think the only motivation for this is shining and honorable, and that the strategists are not using this to their advantage? It’s a dishonorable tactic in an already crappy election season. We have poll challenges here in Minnesota as well, but our election judges have been instructed to call the police to remove challengers who obstruct the voting process or who challenge on a basis other than personal knowledge or fact. I hold out hope that this will minimize the disruption. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/5 "2004-11-02T15:52:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why is it that Democrats sought out people in minority neighborhoods to register? Why is it that they took anyone with a pulse, even if they may have been non-residents, provided phony addresses, which got returned by the post office? When you are trying to improive your party’s vote, it seem legitimate to look for them in the more likely places. I think the Republicans have exactly the same right to conduct voter drives in the affluent suburbs. And it’s not their fault if the person they ask to enrol does so dishonestly, rather than honestly saying, “I’m already enrolled”, or “I’m not eligible to vote”, or “I’m not interested in registering.” Should the person conducting the voting drive give everyone the third degree, and ask for complete documentation? Or should they just assume that most people are honest, and the dishonest attempts to register will be picked up by the County Board of Elections, who should have the resources to check these things? And the fact that a letter is returned does not prove that the registration is dishonest, though it does give a challenger grounds to ask for a double-check on the registration. I think it’s reasonable to ask for ID, or for some other kind of evidence that the registration is valid, in these cases. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/6 "2004-11-02T15:53:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, it’s an attempt to ensure that votes are cast only by people eligible to vote, not people masquerading as dead people, or people falsely claiming to be Ohio residents but providing phony addresses. Or people with similar names to dead people? You make it sound altruistic, but pubbies in Florida have already shown their true colors by selectively pulling people from the rolls if they merely had similar names to ex-cons. Quite frankly, pubbie poll workers have shown they can’t be trusted. Fool me once, shame on… shame on you. Fool me ya can’t get fooled again. (And the morals that they worship will be gone…) ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/7 "2004-11-02T15:56:34Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Forget the dead people, that’s fine with me. \*\* I bet they’re going to disqualify people for not dotting their "i"s and crossing their "t"s\*\* Ok, how big a bet? ---
**Author:** ![GrizzRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@GrizzRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrizzRich)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/8 "2004-11-02T15:57:19Z")
I’m in Ohio. I voted. I saw no challenges being made while I was there. But, then, I do live in a primarily white suburb. But the lines were LOOOO-OOONG! Last Presidential election, I was in and out within four minutes. This time; _FORTY FIVE MINUTES!_. And there was a State Trooper present. Not to vote, but strutted about in the standard “state-trooper” fashion; ostensibly making sure all was orderly. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/9 "2004-11-02T15:58:28Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#): > > We have poll challenges here in Minnesota as well, but our election judges have been instructed to call the police to remove challengers who obstruct the voting process or who challenge on a basis other than personal knowledge or fact. I hold out hope that this will minimize the disruption. Here’s my take: if I have a list of voters who provided an address when they registered that turned out to be phony – that is, when they were mailed something, it was returned by the Post Office – then I feel like it’s very legitimate to challenge those voters if and when they try to actually vote. If there was a typo, and they are legit, fine… no harm done. But when 35,000 voter registrations come back as undeliverable… that’s a lot of typos. I suspect fraud. Now, if challengers are just up there saying, “Eenie-meenie-miney-mo, this next voter’s got to go,” then I agree that the process is being subverted for insidious ends. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/10 "2004-11-02T16:00:43Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > And the fact that a letter is returned does not prove that the registration is dishonest, though it does give a challenger grounds to ask for a double-check on the registration. I think it’s reasonable to ask for ID, or for some other kind of evidence that the registration is valid, in these cases. Then we’re in agreement, I think. I ceratainly wouldn’t support the idea of challengers randomly selecting people to challenge – they should have some specific, articulable basis for challenge. A bad address on the registration qualifies. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/11 "2004-11-02T16:01:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Here’s my take: if I have a list of voters who provided an address when they registered that turned out to be phony – that is, when they were mailed something, it was returned by the Post Office – then I feel like it’s very legitimate to challenge those voters if and when they try to actually vote. If there was a typo, and they are legit, fine… no harm done. But when 35,000 voter registrations come back as undeliverable… that’s a lot of typos. I suspect fraud. I heard a rumor, I have no idea if it’s true or not, that those letters sent out to registered voters were sent certified. I do a lot of certified letters for work, and they require a signature: if nobody’s home during the daytime, the letter gets returned to us. So they could just be pointing out voters who are single or live in two-income households, not pointing out false registrations. Does anyone know whether this is accurate? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/12 "2004-11-02T16:01:56Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Or people with similar names to dead people? You make it sound altruistic, but pubbies in Florida have already shown their true colors by selectively pulling people from the rolls if they merely had similar names to ex-cons. Quite frankly, pubbie poll workers have shown they can’t be trusted. That’s not true. Give me a cite that shows that people with SIMILAR, not identical, names were purged from ballots. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/13 "2004-11-02T16:03:03Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I heard a rumor, I have no idea if it’s true or not, that those letters sent out to registered voters were sent certified. I do a lot of certified letters for work, and they require a signature: if nobody’s home during the daytime, the letter gets returned to us. So they could just be pointing out voters who are single or live in two-income households, not pointing out false registrations. > > Does anyone know whether this is accurate? > > Daniel That’s not my understanding - and it would be quite expensive to mail out so many certified pieces of mail. So no – I have not heard that, although of course I welcome a cite to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Alatariel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Alatariel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alatariel)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/14 "2004-11-02T16:03:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why is it that Democrats sought out people in minority neighborhoods to register? Why is it that they took anyone with a pulse, even if they may have been non-residents, provided phony addresses, which got returned by the post office? > > … > > No, it’s an attempt to ensure that votes are cast only by people eligible to vote, not people masquerading as dead people, or people falsely claiming to be Ohio residents but providing phony addresses. I live in an area that is densely populated, in an area of Ohio where lots of challenges were made. I have had mailcarriers who have stamped my mail as ‘moved, no forwarding address’. I have had multiple packages from relatives bounce with that note. I have spoken with the postmaster, gotten the problem straightened put, only to have it recur when a new carrier took up the route. I have lived in the same apartment for 5 years. Other people who live in this area and around OSU (another densely populated area with a large transient population) have had this problem as well. The ‘returned mail’ rationale is, IMO, not a great ground for challenging. Just got back from the polls. It took about 1.5 hours in line to vote. This was only with a few challenges. (The challenger was a little old lady who was pretty nice). I hate to think what it’s like in areas where the challengers are more gung-ho. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/15 "2004-11-02T16:04:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. Potebtially fraudlant voters are those who provided addresses that got kicked back as “undeliverable” by the post office. You might want to recheck your “undeliverable” comment. I was one of those who recently registered in Ohio, having moved there from New York. A registered letter from the Republican party was sent to my address. Since I have a job, I was not there to receive it, and the postal worker put one of those slips in my mailbox saying that I had to come down to the post office and sign for it. Had I not done so, for whatever reason, my name would have been added to the 35,000 that the Republicans wanted purged from the rolls, because that’s how they all ended up there, not because they had no address, or weren’t real people, they just weren’t home, and didn’t bother to pick up their mail. You might consider that undeliverable, but I think failing to make a special trip to the post office to pick up the latest piece of campaign literature is no reason to disenfranchise someone. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/16 "2004-11-02T16:05:21Z")
> [@Alatariel](#): > > Just got back from the polls. It took about 1.5 hours in line to vote. This was only with a few challenges. (The challenger was a little old lady who was pretty nice). I hate to think what it’s like in areas where the challengers are more gung-ho. THis is what I’m really interested in hearing: are there any early reports on what’s going on with challenges in Ohio? **Bricker** , that rumor may well be false; I’ve not seen it in any news source. I was just wondering if anyone had, or if anyone else had even heard it. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/17 "2004-11-02T16:23:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s not true. Give me a cite that shows that people with SIMILAR, not identical, names were purged from ballots. Because in a nation with more than a quarter of a billion people, it’s inconceivable that two people might share identical names, right? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/18 "2004-11-02T16:24:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s not true. Give me a cite that shows that people with SIMILAR, not identical, names were purged from ballots. Pretty hard to find, actually, and most of my cites are not postable, but I did find [this](http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=55&row=1). > [@](#): > > Smith added that the DBT computer program automatically transformed various forms of a single name. In one case, a voter named “Christine” was identified as a felon based on the conviction of a “Christopher” with the same last name. Smith says ChoicePoint would not respond to queries about its proprietary methods. I’ve seen various examples that the DBT program did various fuzzy purges, so if John Smith was a felon, it would also purge Jon Smith, John Smythe, Jane Smythe, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/19 "2004-11-02T16:26:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s not my understanding - and it would be quite expensive to mail out so many certified pieces of mail. So no – I have not heard that, although of course I welcome a cite to the contrary. And on rereading the thread, **Bill Door’s** post is my cite :). **Bill Door** , by any chance have you run across any news articles talking about this? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557/20 "2004-11-02T16:39:35Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > And on rereading the thread, **Bill Door’s** post is my cite :). > > **Bill Door** , by any chance have you run across any news articles talking about this? > > Daniel Here’s a related story: > [@](#): > > When Catherine Herold received mail from the Ohio Republican Party earlier this year, she refused it. > > The longtime Barberton Democrat wanted no part of the mailing and figured that by refusing it, the GOP would have to pay the return postage. > > What she didn’t count on was the returned mail being used to challenge the validity of her voter registration. > > Herold,who is assistant to the senior vice president and provost at the University of Akron,was one of 976 Summit County voters whose registrations were challenged last week by local Republicans on behalf of the state party. > > She went to the Board of Elections on Thursday morning to defend her right to vote and found herself among an angry mob – people who had to take time off work to defend their right to vote. > > After hearing some of the protests, the board voted unanimously to dismiss all 976 challenges. > > The move, ironically, came from Republican board member Joseph Hutchinson and was seconded by Republican Alex Arshinkoff after they determined that the four local Republicans who made the challenges had no evidence to back up their claims. [http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/10042113.htm](http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/10042113.htm) (reg may be req’d) or [http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/betweenthelines/archives/2004\_10.html](http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/betweenthelines/archives/2004_10.html) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-set-to-challenge-ohio-voters/272557.md?page=2)